Phillip White Interview
Doug Burke:
Welcome to Backstory song. I'm your host, Doug Burke. And today we're here with Phillip White. Phillip White grew up in Alabama and moved to Nashville in 1992, determined to be a songwriter. He struggled to get his work recognized and recorded, and he poured that frustration into a song I'm Moving On. The song was recorded in the late nineties, by an unknown group for their first self titled album Rascal Flatts. It wasn't until a decade later in 2002, when it was released as a single that Phillip got his big break, the song became the 2003 Academy of Country Music Song Of The Year.
Philip White:
Billy's at the bar, he's been there all night. First 10 bears he's had, since her good-bye. Hey! Hey! She left him broke, in his new truck. He don't smoke, but he lights one up. Temporary fix, for his heartache. He's hurting bad, but he's feeling great. He's on a dance floor yelling "Freebird." Singing off pitch, but he knows every word. Grabs him a girl and he hols on tight. He's chasing everything in sight. He'll fall apart when he gets home, but right now his worries are gone. Life looks good, good, good. Billy's got his beer goggles on.
Doug Burke:
Can we talk about Beer Goggles?
Philip White:
We can definitely talk about Beer Goggles. It's funny. I wrote it with a buddy of mine named Mike Mobley and I was moving houses and I just bought a house and I was redoing it. Anyway, Mikey, I called him out and I said, "Hey man, can you come help me hang sheetrock on this day." And he shows up with a case of beer and a guitar and we drank the case of beer and wrote this song and then I hired somebody to do the sheet rock, but it was funny. We demoed it the next day and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this song's horrible." And then Neil McCoy heard it and loved it and put it out and it became a huge hit. It goes show out. I don't always know.
Doug Burke:
And would you call this a summer hit song?
Philip White:
I think it's a cross between summer and it's fun. I take a lot of pride in my writing. I'm more of a poet in a deep cattle writer. I'm known for ballads. This was something kind of new for me, but it was so much fun because Neil got Rob Snyder to star in the video. It was just a fun thing to go through because it's not my typical style of writing.
Doug Burke:
Finishing a case of yours, you don't do that on every song?
Philip White:
No. Absolutely not. Maybe I need to.
Doug Burke:
Did you know you were going to write a song about beer goggles where it'd be a guy who has beer goggles on?
Philip White:
That was not an ideal. We just started picking guitar and then-
Doug Burke:
And drinking beer.
Philip White:
And drinking beer. And then we ended up... I lost my first cousin, his name was Billy, and we got to laughing about some times we had and it ended up, Billy's Got His Beer Goggles On. We've all been there where we've been in the bar and twos turn into tens. And it's just about half the people I grew up with and on a Friday, Saturday night that they're just going out and blowing off a week of hard work. Everything looks better after you've had a few.
Doug Burke:
This is not about any particular person, this is amalgamation of...
Philip White:
This is just us picking and having fun and it's just a lot of fun being a part of because every week we look at chart and go, "Man, did this really go up?" When it hit the charts, I think it debuted in the 50s and then we'd get up in the 40s and be like, man, really this is top 40. Then it rolled top 30s like, man, are you kidding me? And then it finally broke the top five. And we were just elated.
Doug Burke:
No, that's one of Neil McCoy's biggest hits, right?
Philip White:
Absolutely. And I'm fixing to do some shows with him in a couple of weeks in Longview and every time I see him, he's like, "Man, thanks for prolonging my career." I'm still out working on this song he wrote for me. It's funny how... I'm very blessed and thankful that Mikey showed up with that guitar and case of beer.
Doug Burke:
You write the song.
Philip White:
Right.
Doug Burke:
You sleep it off. And then-
Philip White:
You know what's funny? This song almost never saw the light of day, but the next day Mikey had a demo session and he had four songs and there was room at the end of the session to get one more. And he just threw this on the end and it ended up being the one off the session and it got picked up and recorded and became a hit.
Doug Burke:
They listened to the whole tape, get to Beer Goggles and then it happens. You jump up and down and said, this is...
Philip White:
Everybody that heard it is like, "Man, I've never heard that hook before and it's just fun." Everybody in the publisher company, when the demo came in, was just rocking it. There for about a week, every time you'd walk in the door, you'd hear it coming out of a song plugger's office going, man, listen to this. It was funny on the demo. We ended it in... We did the Budweiser frog thing just to be goofy and anyway it didn't make it onto Neil's record, but that was the thing they kept replaying the Budweiser.
Doug Burke:
The promotions' department at the record label got behind this record before it was released and were in love with it?
Philip White:
I think it was mainly Neil. Neil's show, I don't know if you've ever seen him, it's very high energy. And at the time, he was climbing towers and stuff and singing. It was really high energy. I think the fact that it was high energy really spoke to him and his personality, he's so funny, that I'm not sure who else could have done this song, but...
Doug Burke:
That's interesting. I don't know what else is there to say about it. It kind of speaks for itself.
Philip White:
Absolutely. It is what it is.
Doug Burke:
But, it's one of your only singalong anthems.
Philip White:
I've written some others like, Nobody But Me, but that's probably the-
Doug Burke:
The biggest sing along.
Philip White:
Probably the funniest sing along thing that I've got.
Doug Burke:
Is that today the one that the crowd participates in with more than others. There's many of them I guess.
Philip White:
That one and Nobody But Me and Survivor, the Reba theme song. I get a lot of people to sing along with that.
Doug Burke:
Does it matter if the crowd is sober or drunk how well they respond to the song?
Philip White:
Well, depends on if I'm sober or drunk, if I can get them in, but no, I think it depends on the audience. If they remember that era, if it was their era, they're all into it. You get a lot of times crowd that's never heard the song, that goes, wow, this is great. This fun. I got to go check this out.
Philip White:
I was trying to be. I was trying to cope. I was losing my grip at the end of my rope. You say only did what you had to do. So I spend my time doing that too. So I just stay drunk. I just stay stoned. I'd rather die young than to grow old alone.
Doug Burke:
Just Getting By.
Philip White:
When I was starting to record this album, my producer and best friend Paul Compton. He's like, "Man, if you're going to do this record, you're going to have to be vulnerable." I wrote that song that day by myself and then it was just kind of about the hole that I was in and couldn't wait to get out of. We recorded it. The amazing Savannah Conley, who's on Atlantic records, she sang on it with me. Moving on has changed a lot of lives and people that has heard this album and people that's kind of been where I've been, that's the one they all go to. And they're like, "Man, that song kills me." And it's almost too painful for me to hear. It was really painful for me to write because that's probably the most vulnerable that I've ever been as a writer. To say, I live like a devil and I love like a whore. And a lot of people asked me, they're like, well, what does that mean? And it just means that I didn't feel anything. That line, love like a whore, and it just means that I didn't feel anything for anybody. It's just the time of my life that I'm not proud of, but I think it's our job as writers to not only write about the stuff that's easy to write about. About falling in love, about doing this, it's also to write about those times in our lives where we're down at the bottom and we're down at the lowest steps that we can get to because there's other people there. And my hope was with this song when they heard that to go, okay, there's somebody else there. And anybody that follows me, my fans, they know it's a happy ending. That, that was just a phase in my life where I was just getting by. That's why I'm really proud of that song.
Doug Burke:
Talks a lot about drinking and drugging.
Philip White:
Right. I don't know if I've ever had a drug problem and I'm not an alcoholic. I like to drink, but the stone, it was a great rhyme, but it was also during that time it was after going through divorce and I had five or six deaths in my family at the same time. I definitely was drinking a lot more than I usually do. It's definitely talking about subjects that I'm not necessarily very proud of, but it is also very real. I'm not going to deny anything I did at any point in my life because it's just part of my life. Thank goodness I'm at a point in my life right now where I'm very happy.
Philip White:
Everything is good. And I hope that happens, but I think it's our jobs as writers to cover the spectrum of what life is.
Doug Burke:
How long did it take you to write?
Philip White:
I wrote it in about 30 minutes.
Doug Burke:
30 minutes. You had the song idea?
Philip White:
No, you know what? This one, I just sat down and started from the first note and it was almost real time. I wrote it from the first line to the last line and one of those fell out.
Doug Burke:
The music fell out?
Philip White:
Music and lyrics.
Doug Burke:
At the same time?
Philip White:
Basically the same time. It was all Paul saying, "Look, if you're going to do this album you've got to be vulnerable. And I just sat down and let myself evolve and basically told my story at that point.
Doug Burke:
You write it and then you say, this is great.
Philip White:
You know what? I didn't know if it was great because a lot of people here, it's probably pretty dark for most people, but I knew it was real. I knew I'd prick my finger and blame it on paper and I knew it was me. It kind of became my, other than Moving On, the cornerstone of this whole project is, this is something that I can say because I went through it. It's honest. I knew my heroes, John Prine and Kristofferson and those guys would definitely do something like that. Where a mainstream artist wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole because they don't want anything negative, but negative is also a reality in people's lives. I just wanted the whole album to be a whole spectrum between people that's been through hell and ended up coming out of it.
Doug Burke:
It kind of reminds me of late Johnny Cash too.
Philip White:
Well thank you, man. Johnny was a huge influence on me and Don Williams and those cats. Tom petty.
Doug Burke:
Were you feeling that, that it was from those kind of influences at all or did it just come?
Philip White:
I think everything I do is a direct reflection of Tom petty and Don Williams and Johnny Cash and Chris and John Prine and those casts because I grew up listening to them. Bob Dylan, those guys, they were all such huge influences. I think everything I do and everything I love is a direct reflection of the music they made.
Doug Burke:
Who did you bring in the studio with you on this?
Philip White:
That was just me playing guitar and my producer, Paul Compton and an amazing guitar player named John Conley who played the electric guitar and then I asked Savannah Conley. She's been out on tour with Brandi Carlile and Brent Cobb and she's just an amazing singer. And I've known her since she was a little girl. And I was like, "Hey, will you sing with me on this?" And she politely agreed to do it and I was really proud of it.
Doug Burke:
It's not what I would call super radio friendly.
Philip White:
I would say it's not radio friendly at all.
Doug Burke:
But, in the modern error. Do you think there's a place for people to find this kind of song?
Philip White:
I hope there is. I knew when I wrote that, that, that wasn't going to be a radio hit. Was doing a show down in St. Augustine, Florida last year and one of my fellow songwriters that I've known for a year, he came up to me and he said, "Man, I just went through rehab because of your song." If it did nothing else, but that then it's worth it, but I've had several that get my album, that, that's their favorite thing. They listen to it and it's like, I can't stop crying because that's something that I went through or something that I'm going through now, but then they hear songs like Alabama Clay and I didn't make this album for radio. I made it for me and my fans. If it never played on radio, then I'm still proud of it.
Doug Burke:
It is a rock bottom feeling in the song.
Philip White:
Well, it's about being on rock bottom and I didn't hide from that. I let myself be vulnerable, but it's funny when the minute I got through writing that song, it was a healing and finishing that song that every day got a little better from that point on, because I think I hadn't got it out until I wrote that song.
Doug Burke:
It gave you closure.
Philip White:
Yeah.
Philip White:
Grandma didn't know no napkin. Grandpa whittling on a stick. They say you walked her home from school one day and they'd been together since. Well, she never thought of leaving even when he hit the shine. She's seen the first in you as well. Well that's forty sure with fine.
Philip White:
But, they don't make them like that no more, no more. But, they don't make them like that no more. Any modern day girl would have been long gone. No, they don't make them like that no more. The good lord called grandma home in the fall of 99. And I remember grandpa saying, I hope I'm not far behind. Well we tried to cheer him up and help him to move on. But, he just stared at her old pictures and cried as the night went on. Said they don't make them like that no more, no more. But, they don't make them like that no more. He said I'm glad I'm not a young man now because they don't make them like that no more. Well last week we buried grandpa and I cried and cried and cried because I only know a man like him. Maybe once in all my life. Like a lightning bolt, it hit me. So I pulled out my cell phone and I called up an engraver to come write this on your stone. They don't make them like that no more. They don't make them like that no more. They don't make them like that no more. They don't make them like that no more. They don't make them like that no more.
Doug Burke:
Oh, where's my box of tissues. I had it right there. Thank you. I have to give you a little backstory if I can and I will cut this out in all likelihood, but my dad who at 85 passed away on Memorial day, it's really a beautiful thing in a lot of ways and I'm doing this in part for him. You pay seven kids and we were all flying to Minneapolis to go to my brother's 40th birthday and he flew in and finally my siblings flew in the night before. They had a steak dinner two Tito's on the rocks and a brew pub that he loved and I went home to the Marriott, got up the next morning and his brain arteries gave out. They rushed him to the hospital and then I was on the airplane to arrive for the party and we all waited and we all watched him expire. And that's the first time I've seen someone die and that was my dad and all seven of us were there, got to say goodbye. We Face Timed the grandchildren and they all got to say goodbye. And it was kind of interesting confluence of modern technology an event, life event, major life event. He was a huge country western fan and he and I had, had a moment after... When I was in college and we commuted together to New York in a car and we'd always listen to country western station because he'd been a Navy fighter pilot and those guys, that's all they listen to. The only thing you can listen to when you're in the Navy is country music. I was telling even Stevens, Eddie Rabbits, I Love Thee Rainy Night was in the charts right then and that changed my life. I have to give, of the three boys, my youngest brother's really taciturn and my oldest brother, he actually goes to storytelling. I don't know if their competitions in Maine, but it does sound like long-winded affairs and they picked me to give the eulogy. I've been using this exploration of this country music as a means for grief relief. Anyway, I apologize for crying. That's what you want right?
Philip White:
Well, I was with my dad when he passed and I gave the eulogy of both my mom and dad's funeral, but that song it's special to me. My mom and dad met on a blind date and my dad had just got through bootcamp and he came to Rogersville, Alabama. His parents had moved from Chicago to Rogersville while he was in bootcamp. And he came to see them after he got through bootcamp and my mom's best friend was my dad's first cousin. And she introduces them on a blind date and this was January 2nd, 1955. The very next day, my mom's best friend, dad's first cousin, gets killed in a car wreck. Two days later after knowing each other three days, my dad drives home from Rogersville, Alabama to Iuka, Mississippi to get married. And she moves from Rogersville, which she'd never been out of the state of Alabama before, but she moves to Germany with my dad and 55 years they were together and four boys, 17 grandkids and 40 some great, great, great-grandkids now. It's a pretty amazing love story.
Doug Burke:
They don't make them like that anymore.
Philip White:
Right. Exactly.
Doug Burke:
This song is about grandparents.
Philip White:
We made it about grandparents and the inspiration was my mom and dad and their love story, but being from Alabama there's a couple places in there where I use my uncle who ended up being a deacon at his church back in the heyday of prohibition and everything, he ran in shine. He was married to my aunt, Georgia Ann, who was just an angel to put up with him because he was just a hell raiser. He ran from the law, he was selling shine out of the back of that old Chevy and there's other people I use in this song that were just characters from my life, but story was based on my mom and dad and their love story.
Doug Burke:
And you flipped it to grandparents.
Philip White:
I did.
Doug Burke:
Why?
Philip White:
Mainly because I got four brothers. We're all eight years apart and when we started writing this song, I'm like, if I write this about my parents to in that time period, there's not going to be any artists that's going to relate to it, but they would relate if it was their grandparents.
Doug Burke:
The line I really like is, and I've seen this so many times and I think we all have is when one passes the other just...
Philip White:
They just fade away.
Doug Burke:
That was why I was here. I don't really need to be here anymore.
Philip White:
Right.
Doug Burke:
And that happened so many... Did you observe that in life?
Philip White:
I have. There's so many people that just die of being lonely or brokenhearted and the person they're with is the whole reason they're here.
Doug Burke:
You have recorded this.
Philip White:
I have. It's on my new album that's called, Moving On Sessions, Volume One, and it's on all digital platforms. And they're playing Alabama Clay on satellite radio and they're playing No More on satellite radio and Sirus XM. Hopefully it reaches the masses.
Doug Burke:
Tell me about the production session.
Philip White:
We made that, me and a couple buddies. Bart Bush and Paul Compton. We've all been buddies since college and have all went on to be pretty successful in the music business. When I decided to do this, I called them up. I've been in Nashville 27 years and I said, "Man, I really want to go back to most shows because that is kind of the core of my music. My mentors are a guy named Spinner Odom and another guy named Donnie Frizz, who just passed away this past couple of weeks and I just wanted to go back down to my shows and made this album and that's what we did.
Doug Burke:
That's going back home truly to Muscle Shoals. I've never been there.
Philip White:
It's amazing. It's weird. It's a small town environment and I don't know if you've seen the documentary, but it's pretty incredible because the whole rest of the world during that time thought that this ban was, just... They didn't know they were just a bunch of white guys from high schools around there. There's just great musicians. Aretha came in and Paul Simon would call and say, "Man, I want that same black band that you used on Aretha." And they're like, "Well, you can get them, but they're mighty pale." But it was just was a magical period. It's the sixties. And it was the blending of the races and what I love about it right now is they all truly loved each other in a time where they weren't supposed to. And they were making music together in a time they weren't supposed to. There's something about that, that you don't get in any other recording Capitol or recording town like Nashville or New York or even Detroit or Memphis or LA. It was just deep South and it was segregated. And those guys that were part of that were making more than music and they were changing more than they thought.
Doug Burke:
They don't make them like that anymore or they still make them like that?
Philip White:
You know what, it's kind of booming again down there and I spent half my time in Nashville and half my time in Mussel Shoals and I've been loving working down there again because there's still that great love for the music makers that come out of that area and there's this great respect that I don't think you get anywhere else.
Doug Burke:
Is there anything quirky about Muscle Shoals recording studios?
Philip White:
No. There's some that hadn't changed a lot, but most of them... And there's some great records being made down there. Right now you got Jason Isbell and St. Paul and The Broken Bones and Alabama Shakes and there's some really cool things going on down there. And I think the people... This love we've lost several other guys now. Berry Beckett was a mentor of mine. He passed away several years ago. And Jimmy Johnson, who is the founder of the Swampers just passed away last week. His funeral was Monday and I went and I think there's a passion among a handful of the guys that has been successful in the music business that won't keep that alive.
Doug Burke:
When you're recording a song, like they don't make them like that anymore in a place like that. It's like, you're on hallowed ground or you have a torch to carry.
Philip White:
Absolutely.
Doug Burke:
What's the feeling with all the musicians that are in the room?
Philip White:
I think there's just a passion to make more magic there because there's something magic in that, around that river and in that place, that is the soundtrack of all our lives. Where was it made in that little Alabama town.
Doug Burke:
And who did you pick to go into that studio with you?
Philip White:
It was me and my buddies, who both from North Alabama, a guy named Billy Lawson, a Spinner Odom, who was my mentor, who's in the rock and roll hall of fame now. Guys like, Will McFarlane, James LeBlanc and it's pretty magical.
Doug Burke:
Some pretty good names in there.
Philip White:
Yeah.
Doug Burke:
All right. Great. Anything else on this one?
Philip White:
No, thank you.
