Tammy Rogers Interview
Doug Burke:
Welcome to Back Story song. I'm your host Doug Burke. And today we're here with Tammy Rogers of the band The Steeldrivers. Tammy Rogers began playing classical violin in fifth grade and joined her family's playing in bluegrass festivals in her teenage years. She joined The Steeldrivers, which was formed by some of the top session players in the Nashville scene. After many years as a musical contributor, Tammy Rogers found her songwriting gifts on The Steeldrivers third, fourth and fifth albums, Hammer Down and the Muscle Shoals Recording and Bad For You. While hard to categorize as a pure bluegrass band because of the heavy influence of R&B and soul, the Muscle Shoals Recording did take them to the pinnacle of songwriting with a Grammy for Best Bluegrass album.
I'm here with Tammy Rogers of The Steeldrivers.
Tammy Rogers:
Yes.
Doug Burke:
To talk about the backstory of some of your songs. The first one you'd like to talk about is Never Far Away.
Tammy Rogers:
Yes, yes. And that came out back in the mid 90s. That sounds so, so long ago. But I was involved with an Americana label, there in Nashville. We were kind of Americana before Americana was cool, called Dead Reckoning Records. And it was really kind of a collective of songwriters, actually. It was me, Kieran Kane, Kevin Welch, Harry Stinson and Mike Henderson, we're all partners. So that was an amazing group of seasoned veteran songwriters to be around and I was a little baby. So I was trying to soak up all their wisdom and experience. I did a record for the label, and that particular song Never Far Away. I mention it because it was something that, as songwriters, you know, sometimes we totally tell our story. We tell what's going on in our lives what exactly we're feeling in that moment. And that song really, really did that. I can remember exactly sitting on the bed, in the hotel in Dublin, Ireland, writing those lyrics down. I probably still have the hotel stationery that I wrote that out on. It was really me, kind of talking to myself and, in a sense, talking to a fella that was my boyfriend at the time, that I wound up marrying a couple years later. So my now husband - it was just very genuine and honest and from the heart and you know, the lines in the song talk about "it's noisy here, you know, by the street, the bid is lumpy in the bathtub leaks, I arrived just yesterday in this town." Thinking about, you know, going out for a walk, find a pub and make small talk, "as long as I'm here might as well look around. And that was exactly what was going on in my head. So I was trying to just put it down in verse format or in a rhyming format, but the chorus says, but I'm thinking of you and, you know, I'm sad, I'm lonely, but you're never far away, is what I'm getting to at the end of the chorus. And then the second verse was very personal to me because I talk about "I know you wonder, you know, why go but you've been here so you should know better than anyone else, how it feels," because he's a musician too. So, that was me explaining, say, I know, you know why I'm doing this. And then, say, "one more town a few more songs and I'll be back, I belong in your arms is where I'll be until that time, I'll just dream." So very sweet love song in a sense, but capturing that that moment of being thousands of miles apart in a foreign city.
Doug Burke:
Do you know that you're in Dublin in the song?
Tammy Rogers:
Yes, yes. I mention Grafton Street.
Doug Burke:
Okay.
Tammy Rogers:
And pubs, you know, those types of imagery in there. And I did that specifically, so hopefully people would know that I wasn't just, you know, hanging out in Nashville or wherever.
Doug Burke:
I think hanging out in the pubs in Dublin is probably more dangerous. Like you're on the road, you're alone. Go out into an Irish Pub. Were you thinking about doing that?
Tammy Rogers:
I was, yeah.
Doug Burke:
You know, you go on the road all the time.
Tammy Rogers:
Exactly. I find the Irish people in particular to be so charming and so nice and they just are, you know, they love music.
Doug Burke:
Have you ever gotten up on stage and played? Not at a scheduled gig? Any of those pubs? I have had songwriters in this do that.
Tammy Rogers:
I'm trying to think. I have. Not on that particular trip, I didn't. But yes, I have. And that's always fun, because there's kind of an unspoken understanding. It's like, oh, yeah, you know what this is about?
Doug Burke:
Uh huh.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, yeah. You're one of the club. So, yeah.
Doug Burke:
So you this is like a Hallmark card to your husband, now, or your boyfriend at the time.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, my boyfriend at the time? Yeah, we recorded it. And after a while, then it became every song I would write, you know, he would listen to it go is that about me? So I had to start saying no, that one's not about you. But it's hard sometimes for your family. I do write a lot of songs, I've written a ton about my daughter now. I think our job as songwriters is to tell a story to tell something you know, to tell the truth. There are quite a lot of songs that I've written about her, and for her, and to her. There's one on the new record, the new Steeldrivers record that actually closes out the whole record. And I just told her recently. She didn't know that she was kind of the inspiration for this song and I finally told her, I think she was kind of shocked because the title is When a Heart Breaks.
I was inspired after her very first, when she was 16, break up with her boyfriend. She had been dating this young man for about six or seven months and to see her go through that was hard, you know? It hurt me to watch that, but I just you have to go through it. We all have to go through that. But you know, at one point again as a songwriter, you know, I'm watching it and and this line came in to my mind and it was, you know, kind of listing all the things that happened to you when a heart breaks.
Doug Burke:
And did you draw on your own personal experiences for a teenager at the same age? Having crushes on the opposite sex.
Tammy Rogers:
Oh yeah! And some of it was just watching her you know, kind of going through what she did and I did co-write that particular song with my dear friend, Tom Utes. And past a certain point, you know, a song will take on a life of its own, so not every single verse in that song is about her breakup or about my breakup. Then suddenly you start thinking about, "okay, how can we make this..."
Doug Burke:
Universal?
Tammy Rogers:
Universal. Then you just think about, okay, in general, what might you feel when a heart breaks? So certainly not every single word is about her but she definitely was the inspiration for that. And she was a little shocked when I told her.
Doug Burke:
So go back to Never Far From Me when you first played that to your then boyfriend, how did he react? Or was he did you play over the phone?
Tammy Rogers:
Oh, I think I waited until I got home you know, at the time - this was way before Skype and FaceTime and cell phones and all that. So, you know, it wasn't as easy to communicate back then, so I probably waited until I got home to play it for him, and he was probably embarrassed. But I think at the same time probably a little bit, you know, pleased that I would, be inspired to write a song.
Doug Burke:
So you write this beautiful love song to your boyfriend, now, your husband and you decide this has to be recorded. So what happens next?
Tammy Rogers:
Well in that particular case, I knew I wanted to do a record for Dead Reckoning. And yeah, we set up some studio time and went in the studio, played the song for everybody, you know, just kind of me and my guitar and set to work. You know, Nashville musicians are so amazing, literally you write out a chord chart and play the song for them once and they can turn around and just sit and play it back with you.
Doug Burke:
Yeah.
Tammy Rogers:
It's crazy. It's amazing. But yeah, I'm sure Harry Stinson was on drums because he was in the label and Kevin may have even been playing guitar on that track. And Kieran was probably playing mandolin, you know, so it was all my buds, all my pals.
Doug Burke:
That's the standard mandolin fiddle combination.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah.
Doug Burke:
That is the signature sound. In some respects, or part of the foundation of your sound.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, part of it. That definitely was pre-Steeldrivers. So it was definitely a little more singer songwriter-y. You know, there wasn't a banjo, and there were electric instruments and some drums and things like that. So more eclectic than, you know what I've since gone on to do with The Steeldrivers. But, yeah.
Doug Burke:
So When a Heart Breaks, tell me about the recording process there.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, that's -
Doug Burke:
That's more recent.
Tammy Rogers:
Definitely. Yeah, brand new. And the way that kind of worked, we knew we were going to go in the studio and make the next Steeldrivers record. So I would kind of group these songs together and then I would send them out to the guys in the band because of course, you know, songwriter, I love all of them. They're like your kids. You know, you love all of them. But I had written so many songs, I knew we couldn't record 50 songs they had to be, you know, kind of sorted through. And actually it was Kelvin Damrell, our lead singer that heard When a Heart Breaks, and he was like "we've got to do this." He said "this melody is is great and the chord progression." And of course, I was excited that he liked it and wanted to sing it. And I thought it was a different groove and feel than anything else on the record. We really we got together I think and did a rehearsal, maybe before going in the studio and kind of sketched out the arrangement a little bit, but nobody really had their parts completely nailed down. But we went in the studio and really honed in on it, and I think got a great recording of it, got a great version of it. So I'm super excited.
Doug Burke:
You write a lot of songs that men sing.
Tammy Rogers:
I do. I do. Do Yes. Which is funny. It's odd. But you know, um, that's a very interesting point. I think the reason I do that these days mostly is because I'm in a band with a bunch of guys. And the viewpoint of the band is definitely from a male perspective. And I'm totally comfortable with that. I'm totally okay with that, I'm not the lead singer, I never have been. You know, we've had phenomenal lead singers, but I'm also absolutely okay with writing songs from a male perspective.
Doug Burke:
But When a Heart Breaks is a mom's perspective? Is it a mom's perspective, or is it universalized? Because everyone can have a heart break.
Tammy Rogers:
Yes, there's nothing in that song, that I recall, that makes it from a male perspective or female perspective. I think either or could totally sing it. So, again, yes, I may write a song that is, you know, from a guy talking to her, you know, but we're all people. I think concepts of love, loss, hurt, pain. Those are universal. You know, so I don't really get caught up too much on, "Okay, I'm gonna put myself in the mindset of a guy."
Doug Burke:
Those aren't gender based feelings. They're universal feelings.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, universal. Yeah, I mean, I just want to write the best song that I can write. Sometimes I do wind up co-writing with a lot of men. And that may bring in that aspect of it. You know, as far as I might say, "well, how about this line?," a guy might not say it that way. "Okay, fair enough. How would you say it?"
Doug Burke:
Well, let's get Reba to sing this.
Tammy Rogers:
Exactly, exactly. But it's funny, I wrote a song and it was on our record, Hammer Down. And I wrote it with a great Nashville songwriter, Leslie Satcher. And again, it was about my daughter. Another song about -
Doug Burke:
Does she know this?
Tammy Rogers:
She does. Oh, yeah.
Doug Burke:
She's not gonna scream, "Mom. I can't believe you told that podcast Back Story Song guy that stuff about me."
Tammy Rogers:
No! No, she won't.
Doug Burke:
Okay.
Tammy Rogers:
Because anytime she's at a show she's always like, "are you gonna sing Hell on Wheels, Mom?"
I think she likes it though. I think it gives her a little notoriety because I usually say "my daughter Delaine is here tonight. I wrote this about her when she was about seven." So I think it gives her a little pride there, but we thought it was from the girl's perspective, you know, but I didn't want to sing it in the band. I mean, I'm not the lead singer in the band. But I thought, there's nothing in the song because we're talking - the first line is "she's already running wild and she can't even drive." That's a third person line. Anybody can sing that. So I remember playing it for Gary Nichols, who was the lead singer in the band at the time. And I said, "How about this?" I said, "think of it as like, you're the dad singing this about your daughter." And he happened to have a daughter. So I think at that point, he went, "Oh, yeah, that does work." And I think in certain ways, it became stronger. To hear it from a male voice than from a female voice.
Doug Burke:
I do like to talk about specific songs, but a lot of your songs deal with infidelity and cheating women.
Tammy Rogers:
Mm hmm. I'm trying to think, did I write a cheating song on that record?
Doug Burke:
No, so you don't write cheating songs? That's -
Tammy Rogers:
Oh do write cheating songs, but usually not, you know, not from my perspective. I haven't cheated on my husband. I want everybody to know that. No cheating. But yeah, I mean, again, sometimes as a songwriter, you don't necessarily have to have lived it. There's a song that closes out Muscle Shoals Recordings, which is about the Civil War.
Doug Burke:
I love this song. Let's talk about this.
Tammy Rogers:
River Runs Red.
Doug Burke:
Let's talk about it.
Tammy Rogers:
That's a really special song to me. It's one of my most proud moments as a songwriter. I really am so proud of the writing of that, and the story that it tells.
Doug Burke:
What story you're trying to tell?
Tammy Rogers:
Well, here's the backstory, I was driving down Music Row that day, we almost had the album done. We'd been done Muscle Shoals recordings, so we knew that we had to come back for another day and finish up. We needed two or three more songs. And we didn't have a big ballad. You know, we had a bunch of kind of mid tempo stuff, blues-y, real, gritty, grimy stuff, but we didn't have that gorgeous, powerful ballad. And I thought, man, if I could nail one of those, that would be something. So I had a songwriting appointment that day with two of my favorite co-writers, Jerry Salley and Liz Hengber, and they are amazing. If you're familiar with them, Jerry has had a hit song, I think in every genre. I mean, he's had country, gospell, bluegrass, and Liz, same way. I mean, she's had huge, you know, Reba McEntire cuts. Just a great songwriter but she co-wrote Hear the Willow Cry on the first SteelDriver record with Chris Stapleton. So she had a history with the band. And Jerry co wrote Midnight Tears with Chris on the first record, so he had a history with the band. So I got together with them, and we wrote Long Way Down, which was kind of the lead off track for Muscle Shoals Recordings. And then I had this appointment to get together with them, so I walked in that day - I was driving down Music Row, and I did not have a title and I almost always like to walk in with a title. It's like, hey, I really have this idea for a song, and I didn't have one. I was driving on Music Row and suddenly this this image occurred to me and it was blood flowing. I just kind of went, "what is - what is that mean?" And by the time I made it down 16th and had come back up 17th to their offices, we were writing it at Starstruck. I had taken that image in my mind and the words River Runs Red had come to me. And I was like, Wow, that is - I don't know what the story is yet, I don't know what the song needs to be about yet, but that image is so strong and so powerful. And those words - sometimes I just like the way words sound together. I know that's -
Doug Burke:
It's alliteration.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, alliteration or just, you know, I'll hear words and the rhythm of the words will just grab my ear and it's like, I like that. That's cool. What is that? What does that mean? You know, what's that about? So I walked in to the appointment and we sat down and and they were like "okay, well what should we write about today?" And I said, "Well I have this title." And it's River Runs Red and they were like, "Ooh, that's great." And Lizzy immediately was like, "oh, let's make it a murder ballad where you know they drag the girl down to the river and you know throw her into drown." I was like, "we've already got one of those Liz." And we did, we had this song called Brother John that we'd already recorded so it wasn't a lie,
Doug Burke:
Enough with the serial killer business.
Tammy Rogers:
Right and the river, you know, the that's a mountain murder ballad tradition, you start going back to Knoxville girl. So Jerry was sitting there and he said, "You know, I just was down at the Stones River battlegrounds in Murphysboro just right down the road." And he said, "Maybe this is about that battle and I went, "that's what the song needs to be about." We had two other civil war songs, kind of in the band's catalogue from the first two records, that our fans loved. So the idea of writing a historical piece, and kind of hanging that title on a particular battle, just seemed perfect. And come to find out, you know, with modern technology, he pulled up his laptop and we started doing some just quick research about that battle, and there was the river there. And it was an extremely bloody battle, you know, many thousands of casualties, it was like this, this really needs to be told. And we tried to put as many specific facts about that particular battle as we could. I mean, yes, we fictionalized a couple characters, you know, now Rogers was from Alabama and Thomas is an old New York captain. We didn't look up particular pitfalls
Doug Burke:
That's the south and the north?
Tammy Rogers:
Exactly exactly. But I think it really portrayed - and what we were trying to say, you know, is there's no winners, you know, losers... in war. Because all the blood runs together in the river you know? And the thing we did read that that particular battle, it was reported the night before the battle, New Year's Eve in 1862 that the Union soldiers were camped on one side of the river and the Confederates were camped on the other side. And they were, they each traveled with bands, so like drum and bugle and stuff like that, they and get fired up, if you will, the night before. And the Union soldiers were playing Yankee Doodle, and the Confederates were answering with Dixie, and they said this went on back and forth until the early early morning hours. And then they somehow simultaneously joined together and played Home Sweet Home. So that's why at the very end of that recording, we tagged it with little instrumental bits of Yankee Doodle, then we played Dixie, and then we all come in and play Home Sweet Home together a little bit, because it really happened. So that's why we did that.
Doug Burke:
Your band's never been afraid of tackling arguably controversial topics like that,
Tammy Rogers:
Right. No, and that's the great thing, in my opinion, of being in a band that is kind of outside of top 40 radio or, you know, commercial country or whatever, if you will. We can write songs about whatever we want. We can write songs, you know about anything. I mean, on the new record, for instance, there's an amazing piece that I wrote, again, with Jerry and Liz, and it's about 9/11 and it's called The Falling Man.
That was with Jerry and Liz. Liz is a native New Yorker and she grew up in New York City she's been in Nashville many years now. But she came in, I think we wrote it... I don't know that it was 9/11, but it was either the day before or very close. And she said, "Guys, I just feel compelled to write this today." And we were like, "absolutely. Let's do it." And it's stunning. And I brought it in and played it for the guys and they were immediately like, "Oh, yeah, we've got to do this. This is so unique. This is so different." So I love that. It's so creatively freeing, when you have an outlet for really different types of songs. You know, there are a lot of songwriters that are trying to write for a very commercial specific slot and marketplace. And that's tough. That's tough. Because, you know, there's certain subjects that that people evidently don't want to hear on the radio. Or you know, it's just, it's really hard, you know?
Doug Burke:
So this 9/11 tribute song.
Tammy Rogers:
Yes.
Doug Burke:
That's just haunting. The title is haunting.
Tammy Rogers:
It is and and the music. Yes, the music reflects, it has very haunting melody. I always like to, when I'm writing, think about, okay, what's the story we're trying to tell here? What, what is the feel? What is the mood? How can we reflect that? It's haunting, how can we reflect that in the music. I want it to all be tied in together, you know, I feel like that as much as part of the job is coming up with the lyric, you know? Coming up with the perfect melody and the perfect groove that reflects this traumatic, emotional, haunting event in our country's history. So I think we did it.
Doug Burke:
So, it's a story we know.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah.
Doug Burke:
Everybody knows the story. How do you turn that into a song.
Tammy Rogers:
We kind of sat there and thought about, you know, this picture of this man. And the first line is, "I once had a home, I once had a life. Now I'm just a soul without wings to fly." So we were kind of super imposing, almost, a story on this person. But it's not untrue because this person was a person. I mean, there's evidence, there's a picture of that man. So that's kind of what you do when you try to write a song, you try to think about what is this? What's real here? But how can I turn this around and say it in a poetic way? How can I make this you know, into something? Not that it's greater than that event or greater than that picture, but, you know, a compliment to that, if you will.
Doug Burke:
We all remember where we were.
Tammy Rogers:
Exactly, exactly. And you know, the bridge in that song says, "Septembers will come, Septembers will go, but I'll still hear the voice of 3000 Souls." And it's, you know, that's kind of a universal thing. I mean, we all - that lived through that, every September it rolls around. As it should, that's not something you necessarily want to forget.
Doug Burke:
No, no, thank you for honoring victims of that.
Tammy Rogers:
That's our job. You know, it's a hard job sometimes, but, you know, to take in what's around you. Sometimes it's really happy stuff. Sometimes it's great stuff. I wrote a song, again with my buddy Tom Utes, on the new record, and I joked, you know, during our live sets that it's our only happy song. But the title is, I Choose You.
You know I've been married now 22 years.
Doug Burke:
Congratulations.
Tammy Rogers:
Thank you. Yeah, that's like an eternity in the music world. I think.
Doug Burke:
For two musicians!
Tammy Rogers:
For two musicians. Yeah, exactly. Maybe we should say 44 years. 22 times two. Yeah. But, you know, I am not 22 anymore. So, I'm writing things from a different perspective now. And a more mature perspective on a relationship. It's like, "I choose you, everyday in 100 different ways". I make the choice to stay. That's what the song is about. It's about - you have to choose this over and over again. And I choose - I want to be with you. And it's all the little tiny, tiny things you do. Get up in the morning and, you know, I have my husband spoiled, I usually bring him a cup of coffee and set it down beside the bed every morning. You know, it's those little things. I mean, I could say I'm not gonna do that anymore. But it's a nice gesture and I want to do that. I want him to know that, that I like doing that every day.
Doug Burke:
So you bring this love story home to your husband of 20 some odd years at this point. How does he react?
Tammy Rogers:
He's pretty chill about it all now. I don't think he gets as embarrassed as he used to.
Doug Burke:
Really? He used to get embarrassed?
Tammy Rogers:
I think so.
Doug Burke:
Like, when you take something on stage.
Tammy Rogers:
Oh, yeah,
Doug Burke:
Because people don't know it's about him.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, yeah. All those sappy songs about him. But no, he's he handles it all really well, these days. He's, he's my biggest fan. So he's great.
Doug Burke:
So he said I like this. Uh huh. Did he say you gotta record it?
Tammy Rogers:
Oh, yes.
Doug Burke:
Did he ask, can we get in the studio?
Tammy Rogers:
Well, he's not in the band. So -
Doug Burke:
No, how fast can we get you in the studio creating your art.
Tammy Rogers:
You know, he's pretty good about that. You know, he knows that. It's a different dynamic being in a band than when I was just doing things solo. He gets it when I say, well, we're not gonna go into record, you know, for another six months. He says "Oh, okay."
Doug Burke:
So I Choose You, tell me about the recording of it. How'd you put it together?
Tammy Rogers:
Well, I was with SteelDrivers. So it was the band and I played them the work tape and they dug it. We started working on it and it just felt really good. It just, musically it feels good. It kind of to me reminds me of Gentle on My Mind. You know, I always think that kind of really good - everybody it makes them feel good - kind of tempo. And I kid you not we hadn't even recorded it yet and we played it one night and we're like, "Hey, we're gonna do the song for ya and.. brand new." And I looked down on the front row and by the second chorus, there was this couple and he had reached over and was holding her hand And I started looking out in the audience, and I saw the couples just kind of lean into each other a little bit more. And I thought
Doug Burke:
You got something here.
Tammy Rogers:
We've got something here. And by the end of that song, people were singing the chorus. And it was amazing. It happened that fast. So I think it's a really special song. I really, really do. Not because I wrote it, but it just, it seems like it really is a touchstone to people you know.
Doug Burke:
Could be a wedding standard?
Tammy Rogers:
That would be a perfect - and we talk about it and say, we wrote the perfect bluegrass wedding song. Or it could be an anniversary song, because you're choosing them over and over again every year. But yeah, we played it, I think the next night at another venue and the guy that was running monitors for us, he came up and he said, that's my new favorite song.
Doug Burke:
Let's talk about, what's the name of this one?
Tammy Rogers:
It's a song called Innocent Man. Yeah, and like I said earlier, I love all my songs. They're like my children. It's hard for me to choose a favorite, you know. But this one, I wrote with a fella that I absolutely love so very much, John Paul White, if you're familiar with him. I met him in Nashville... oh gosh, a good while ago. He kind of rose to national fame in a duo called the Civil Wars. So if you're not familiar with them, definitely go check out their material, the songwriting was just truly phenomenal. And the singing he's, he's a monster vocalist, but he's from Muscle Shoals. So we had a lot of connections along the way. He was a longtime co-writer with Gary Nichols who was in the band for eight years. So we had cut several of his songs on Hammer Down and Muscle Shoals recordings. So he was kind of like a silent partner, you know, and kind of like Jerry and Liz, you know, co-writing quite a few of the songs through the years with the band. But I had played on some of his demos, pre-Civil Wars on a thing that he and Joy Williams had written, so we had that connection. And of course, he had worked with my husband down in the shoals probably for the last 20 years. So just lots of lots of cool tie ins there. But when it came time to get ready for this next record, I had never written with John and I just kind of cold called him. I was like, "Hey, I know you're busy, but I love what you do and I would love to, you know, sit down and see if we could come up with something for the new record." A nd He was like, "absolutely, let's do it." So we got together and I had this title, I had just read this book, I read a lot. And that's how I come up sometimes with song titles, again, I've never murdered anybody, I've never been in jail, but I've written lots of songs that talk about those subjects. So sometimes, you know, you just kind of have to put yourself - like you're telling the story that you've read in a book or something. But I was reading this book, about this guy that was wrongly accused of a crime in Oklahoma. John Grisham wrote it, but he wrote it like it was one of his thrillers, but it's a true story. And it was called The Innocent Man. And John Paul came over that day, and I said, "hey, I've got this title. I think it would make a cool song." And I was even thinking about just kind of putting the story of this guy to song and he said, Yeah, he said, I love that. But he turned it, which was so great because oftentimes when you're writing with somebody, you, you know, have a title or a thought and you think, "Oh, it's gonna be this way." And he said, "Okay, that's a great title. Let's, let's totally write that. But let's make it where it's about "I'm not an innocent man." The singer is saying,
Doug Burke:
I'm guilty.
Tammy Rogers:
I'm guilty. I haven't. And he's not a murderer. You know, there's nothing that extreme. But he's saying, you know, I'm guilty of judging people. I'm guilty of, you know, not being a very nice person, I'm guilty of, you know, not doing always the best I can, whatever that guilt is, we don't ever specifically say in the song. Which I think makes it so powerful because you're wondering, it's like, wow, what did this guy do that was so bad? But again, it keeps it so open that other people can feel really convicted, you know, by looking at themselves and going, wow, I can relate to that. So, yeah, I'm excited about that one.
Doug Burke:
An Innocent Man?
Tammy Rogers:
Innocent Man it's called. Yeah. So we got, actually when we went into the studio for that, John Paul came to the studio and co-produced it with us. So it was really great to have him there as the co-writer of the song, you know, with the band, and we got a really great recording.
Doug Burke:
What's the feeling of the music?
Tammy Rogers:
It's kind of dark, kind of mysterious. It's very minor-y, very modal sounding.
Doug Burke:
A lot of your music is minor-y modal, right?
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, especially that we do, but this one definitely has that but you know, it's very aggressive in a way. When the chorus hits, it's very strong. I played this fiddle on it that I have octave strings so it makes it sound down an octave. So it's really dark
Doug Burke:
I was gonna ask you that, I listened to your music I'm like that has to be a different fiddle.
Tammy Rogers:
Well, no...
Doug Burke:
How many different fiddle types do you play?
Tammy Rogers:
I mean on some of our records I've used you know -
Doug Burke:
Or what is it that makes them sound differently? I mean, can you just play them differently and make all that range of sound?
Tammy Rogers:
Sometimes. I mean, on some tracks I've used a viola and done some layering and things like that, but most of the time it's just my regular fiddle. But this particular track I used this fiddle that was really low, and it just gave it a real haunting almost mountain thing.
Doug Burke:
Ozark or Appalachian?
Tammy Rogers:
Appalachian. Appalachian, all the away. Sorry, I can't get away from it. It's my roots.
Doug Burke:
You guys talk about so many places Mississippi, Alabama. Yeah, I mean in so many of your songs, but your songs really have a sense of place, I find. We haven't quite talked about that in this and I did want to but I have run out of time.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah. Well, thanks, Doug.
Doug Burke:
Tammy, Thank you.
Tammy Rogers:
Yeah, you're very welcome.
Doug Burke:
Tammy Rogers with The SteelDrivers.
