Stephanie Lambring Interview
Doug Burke:
Stephanie Lambring began her songwriting and performing career as a teenager on the Nashville Music Scene. There, she was discovered and signed as a songwriter with BMG and Carnival Records. She had four of her songs appear on the TV show, Nashville, recorded by artists like Andrew Combs, Hailey Whitters, and Mary Bragg. She finally tired of the factory-like music production environment of the traditional Nashville Music Scene and left. After several years, her calling as a songwriter led her to write, create, record, and release her 10-song album entitled Autonomy. Free of the confines and rules of the traditional Nashville songwriting scene, Autonomy is full of challenging emotional songs, about deeply personal experiences that break the mold of traditional radio acceptable themes. It is a compelling album that is hard to stop listening to. Welcome to Back Story Song. I'm your host, Doug Burke. And Back Story's mission is to help songwriters get found, discovered and heard. We want you to play and share these episodes. And today, I have the pleasure of having with me Stephanie Lambring. Welcome, Stephanie.
Stephanie Lambring:
Hello. I'm glad to be here.
Doug Burke:
Stephanie, you have a new album entitled, Autonomy. Can you tell me why you call it Autonomy? That's not one of the songs on the album. And give me the motivation for that?
Stephanie Lambring:
Well, initially, it wasn't even on my radar at all to call it Autonomy. I had this running list of potential titles that were drawn from lyrics that are actually in the record. But one day, it just occurred to me, autonomy. Because I actually wasn't signed to a label. I had a publishing deal. I had publishing deals for five years. For me, it turned into this song machine. That really didn't work for me. So, Autonomy represented several things for me. But probably, first and foremost, it was coming back to myself and writing the songs that I love to write without the expectations of anyone else, without measuring it with the Music Row credibility factor, if that makes sense. It represents spiritual autonomy. That is definitely a theme that's explored in the album. It represents autonomy from societal and familial expectations. So, it was just a word and a theme that made sense after I thought about it. And after it came to my mind, I thought, "Well, this is it. This is what it has to be called."
Doug Burke:
Well, the album is a lot of things for me. I found it to be a beautifully challenging, jarring set of songs that I couldn't stop listening to. It's just so gripping but not conventional per se, radio stuff if you will. Let's talk about one of the first songs on the album, Daddy's Disappointment.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. That song was the one I had to write to be able to write freely again. So, I left my publishing deal in the fall of 2015. And then, I went to bartending school. And I started waiting tables as a way to make money. I felt like I had to take the pressure off of being creative to make my money, just for my creative spirit. So, anyway, I had started waiting tables in Nashville. Lots of country stars come in there, lots of songwriters. One of them in particular, Tom Douglas. I actually had written with one time, whenever I had a publishing deal. And he came into the restaurant quite a bit and started taking an interest in me, in my career. One day, he was doing his usual check-in. And he said, "Anybody can write a song in two weeks." He basically challenged me to write a song. And he left me his email address. And he said whenever I wrote something I loved, to send it to him. So, I went home. And it was like my soul, my spirit knew what I needed to write. It had to be this song. It was me processing my relationship with my dad and my relationship with music. And the two are one and the same for a while when I was growing up.
Doug Burke:
So, part of the album feels to me to be very confessional and autobiographical. And it's hard to listen to a song called, Daddy's Disappointment. Perhaps, there's no song that's a pure autobiographical song. There's always writer's license in what you do. But I imagine this is fairly autobiographical.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yes. You would be correct in that. The song was a couple of therapy sessions, probably, or a whole slew of them. My dad is my number one fan. And whenever I started playing music, he saw the potential. I was 15. And I think he saw that and was like, "Oh, wow. This is something that she can pursue." Yeah. My parents, were very, very supportive of me doing music. But then, it led to this situation where a lot of creatives, their parents want them to get a real job. Well, my parents were like, "You have to do music." So, it throws in this interesting dynamic, which is this song was me figuring out, "Am I doing music for myself? Or am I doing it for somebody else?" Because I naturally had this inclination to sing and to write. But then, whenever your parents want you to do something, you don't want to do it. And I think many, many people have that. I don't know if you call it rebellion but just like that rub. And you have to figure out, "What am I doing for myself? And what am I doing for someone else?" My dad was like my stage mom for a while.
Doug Burke:
Yeah. No, it sounds like that in the song. When did you start writing songs? And why did you start writing songs? Was it at the age of 15 when you learned your first three chords?
Stephanie Lambring:
That part is probably a little bit of a stretch. My dad gave me an electric guitar when I was 13. It was a Fender. He played music in high school. So, he was in a rock band called, The Six Teens. And there are six of them. And they're all 16. He definitely had an interest in music. So, it was always around. I learned a couple of chords then. And then, whenever I was a freshman in high school, whenever I was 15, my class did this segment on folk music. And so, I brought in my dad's guitar, and I was practicing. That's when I really started getting into chords and all of that. And I just started singing. I wasn't really writing them. But that's like whenever I started singing and doing cover songs, and playing at fairs and little country music shows around the area. But I started writing, whenever I was 19. I've always had a knack for writing. But I started writing songs whenever I was 19. I was in a really bad car wreck, the summer after I graduated from high school. And I broke my ankle in five places. And I was set to go to Belmont University in the fall, which is known for many things. But among them, it's music and music business programs. We decided to put that off for a semester. As luck would have it, I also got dumped by my boyfriend at that time. And I was heartbroken and sleeping in a hospital bed, in my parents' living room, going to community college classes than that of my high school. So, it was not really my favorite season of life. And I had a vocal coach who told me that if I ever wanted to do anything in Nashville, I had to write songs. I had plenty of inspiration with my breakup. And I started writing. And then, I recorded a couple of simple versions of it. And I mailed him a couple CDs of songs that I'd written.
Doug Burke:
Just to get back at him?
Stephanie Lambring:
I thought I was, but I really don't think I was.
Doug Burke:
Did he respond and say, "This is great stuff"? Or "Are you still mad at me?" Or "Can we get back together?"
Stephanie Lambring:
I think, in my mind, it might make him want me more. I think in his mind, he is probably like, "Who is this stalker girl?" So, that's how that went. But that's what started it.
Doug Burke:
The whole album is a spit of therapy. As a listener, I feel like I'm just sitting on your therapy couch. And not just you talking about your own experiences that required your therapy, but I just started to think it was an album about issues. But I realized that it's really an album about the origin of issues and the origin of baggage. And everybody has that in life. I don't care who you are. You have issues and baggage, and they come from a place. And these songs are about that place where the issues come from, in my mind.
Stephanie Lambring:
I love that take on it. I love that you say that in the songs. I've never really thought about it from that perspective. But that makes so much sense that I'm probably going to keep thinking about that.
Doug Burke:
Well, it's a challenging album. And it's engrossing because it's so challenging. You do this deep dive into the human experiences. And you take people to these uncomfortable places, frankly. And Daddy's Disappointment starts it off. And we come from a daddy. And I guess it's a different relationship for daddy's girl than it is daddy's boy. But it's similar in some respects.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. Whenever I sent this song to Tom Douglas, he said that he related to it as a father and as a son. That really meant a lot to me. I don't want this to be a song that is just like poo-pooing my dad. I was terrified for him to hear it for a long time because I didn't want to hurt his feelings. Especially, the older I get, the more I realized our parents just want to do better. They want to do the best they can. They want to do better than their parents. And from what I understand, my dad's parents didn't really set expectations for him. And I think whenever I was being raised, they wanted to make sure that... they wanted me to have some motivation and set a standard. And that worked well with my personality type. I'm an achiever. So, I don't know. I think a lot of people will see themselves in the song. And I hope just find some understanding no matter where you are.
Doug Burke:
Have you played the song for your dad?
Stephanie Lambring:
I have, yes. He's heard it for a couple years now. So, he knew that I was nervous for him to hear it. But he said, "It's a really good, important song. And I think that you should play it."
Doug Burke:
You got daddy's blessing to play Daddy's Disappointment?
Stephanie Lambring:
I got daddy's a blessing for Daddy's Disappointment.
Doug Burke:
Let's talk about another opposite end of the spectrum song on your album, Autonomy. And that is the song, Mr. Wonderful. As the song progresses, it seems to not turn out to be so wonderful.
Stephanie Lambring:
Oh, yes. Most of it is based from my experience in a controlling relationship about five years ago, or that ended five years ago, rather. I started writing it about three years after we broke up. It took that amount of time to process and just put some words to it. That ended up giving me more grace for myself. But a lot of those abuser types are sneaky. They're charming and smart, and engaging. They just pull out all the stops. And that relationship was definitely a huge learning experience for me.
Doug Burke:
Yeah. The song, Mr. Wonderful, starts out sounding like someone who's really, really good. And he ends up by the end being really, really bad.
Stephanie Lambring:
That's how those relationships go. There's this term called, love bombing. If you read anything about verbally or physically abusive relationships where someone just immediately in love with you. And I mean, telling you all the good things and doing these grand gestures for you. I mean, they're winning you over. So, that's where the song begins. And then, there's this point where it gets confusing. Because on one hand, in the same day, they could be showering you with all the loving things. But then, you're getting these covert messages or sometimes overt messages from them. Like, "How dare you have plans that don't involve me?" They usually aren't saying that outright. But it's this weird headspace to be in that I think I judged women that were in controlling or abusive relationships. Because I thought, "Oh, that wouldn't be me. I'm not that girl." I have a whole new school of thought on that now.
Doug Burke:
Yeah. The song really turns it. I guess it's the break, the lyric, "Every day gets harder to crawl out of the confusion. Red flag anger, good behavior. Which is the illusion?" I love that lyric, red flag anger, good behavior. It just encapsulates the notion of what I think the psychologists call, intermittent positive reinforcement. And perhaps, what is red flag anger, Stephanie?
Stephanie Lambring:
It doesn't have to be really obvious to be a red flag anger. Sometimes, it's someone getting in rage and throwing things, or if someone gets physical. And sometimes, that quiet anger, which is almost scarier because you can't... it's like this seething. That was more my relationship. My relationship did not get physical. But I encountered that quiet seething anger, just the silent treatment. I feel like that can even be red flag anger, the withdrawing to get what he wanted just like those glimpses that you get into their true persona that they try so hard to hide with their false self, the Mr. Nice Guy self. Yeah. I saw anger just anytime he didn't get his way. But then, it was all confusing. Because then, we'd have a great day together. Or he would lay off the things that were bothering me. For me, it was always him pressuring me to get married. "When can we get engaged?" All of that. It was really interesting.
Doug Burke:
Yeah. I guess something deep down inside, you had some question marks about the answer to that question, about Mr. Wonderful.
Stephanie Lambring:
Oh, yeah. Definitely. Well, I'm naturally an anxious person, which I think helped me out in that regard to get out of that relationship. Because I always felt unsettled. Because I bring my own stuff to the table. I mean, we all do. I think the scary thing for me was... because I spent half of the relationship looking at my stuff that I bring and trying to change what I could change on my end. And then, I realized that that wasn't going to be enough. But then, at the same time, being more aware of how he was. I was scared whenever I could understand where he was coming from, like some of the crazy things. So, that part was really scary for me. It's a big mirror. That relationship was a huge learning experience for me.
Doug Burke:
Let's talk about the music, both in this song and a little bit on the album. And in this song, Mr. Wonderful, you start with an organ and a fuzzy guitar, which is one of your signatures, if you like, on this album.
Stephanie Lambring:
So, creating this album was just an experimental experience. I knew more of what I didn't want than what I did want, if that makes sense. That was what helped us put it together. We did use a lot of fuzzy guitars with... the way that I write, I didn't want a sleepy singer-songwriter record. So, we brought out the Mellotron like crazy, and a lot of... grungy, I don't think is the word. But yeah, the fuzzy guitars, just to add some attitude. That was all my producer, Teddy Morgan. That was all him, the Mellotron and the guitars on this one, and Daddy's Disappointment. Although, I did do the acoustic on Daddy's Disappointment. But yeah, he added in that wherever it felt like the songs told us they needed it.
Doug Burke:
I definitely think there's a grungy tone to the theme of Autonomy. You're not talking about comfortable subject matter here. It's really uncomfortable songs. And being alienated for a wide variety of reasons similar to what you would find on a Pearl Jam or Joan Osborne, or a Nine Inch Nails type of record, by Trent Reznor. It's like this darkness of the world. And there's certainly a darkness to Mr. Wonderful.
Doug Burke:
But let's talk about perhaps one of your more controversial songs and videos. Frankly, The Joy of Jesus or just Joy of Jesus?
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. That was the song I was most nervous to release, for sure. One reason being that I'm from Southern Indiana, a conservative area. I grew up in the church. And I feel like, especially since I haven't been releasing music, a lot of people from back home remember me as the really happy, nice, smart girl that played piano at church on Sundays. So, I was really nervous about the reception back home. And that was something that factored into it for me. I don't know why that was... well, I guess I could probably analyze that. But that was a big hurdle for me. I was afraid of what my parents would face if people heard the song. And then, I was also afraid of people hearing the song and then trying to save me, and having an agenda with me. And then, on the other side of things, I used some strong language in there. And one of them is a slur for a gay man.
Doug Burke:
I was wondering how we would talk about that slur for a gay person in this song. And it struck me as something controversial. This whole song is controversial. I mean, to talk about the joy of Jesus, and everybody has their own notion of what that means to them. But then, to talk about the homosexuality in that regard and going down on the quarterback, this is intense stuff, Stephanie.
Stephanie Lambring:
You are not kidding about that. Yeah. That was definitely... the title of the song, some people are going to see that and think, "Oh, this is going to be great. Let's play this for our kids on our drive home." It's definitely not that. But yeah, it definitely delves into some intense subject matter. And I chose to use the slur word. I may change my mind about this one day. But for now, it felt like deep pain requires strong words. And I was trying to paint as painful, I suppose, of the picture as I could. Just to try to have someone connect with the character. And I think that has been the reality for a lot of gay people.
Doug Burke:
I think I remember being told, growing up, that you shouldn't talk about religion, politics, or sex, at least at the dinner table or in polite company. And in this song, you touch on all three of those things in a very controversial way, which is why I like it, frankly. A friend of mine once told me that he always brings up religion, politics and sex in conversations when he goes on sales calls and business environment. And I said, "Oh, my goodness. How could you do that?" And he said, "Because it evokes an emotional response in the person you're talking to. And you can size them up. You can actually gauge who they are and start to understand each other at a deeper level if you bring up these three topics." And of course, you bring them up in one... all three in one song here. So, let's start with politics, if I may. The first verse makes an allusion to Trump/Pence 2016, Conservative Christian. You're in Nashville, and perhaps, a heart of conservative Christianity in America or not far from it. And to actually throw that out there might not make this a radio-friendly song.
Stephanie Lambring:
Oh, yeah. It's definitely not a radio-friendly song. So, the first verse is written about my friend's experience. My friend, Elise Davis. She's a really cool Americana rock girl. She is so good. But she was trolled on Twitter by this man. And she looked him up. And it said, "Trump/Pence 2016, Conservative Christian. I hate feminists," or something like that. So, whenever she told me that story, I already had the song concept in my mind. I knew immediately, "Well, there's my first verse." But after finishing the song, I was like, "Can I put that in there?" I mean, not "Can I?" I already did. But it also goes against like songwriting 101, not to specifically timestamp a song. I talked to a good friend of mine. And she said, "If you can't think of anything better, don't change it." So, it felt like that was supposed to be there. But I was concerned about putting Trump/Pence 2016 because I didn't really want that to limit the song. But a friend of mine told me that if I couldn't think of anything better, then not to change it. So, I didn't think of anything better. I tried. But it just felt like throughout the course of writing that song, that was always there. And with this, I get my friend Elise told the story I knew. So, I didn't change it. I was a little bit worried that when people would hear the song, they would hear the word Trump. And then, just not listen to any of the rest of it and miss the heart of it entirely. And I guess with any art that you put out there, that's going to happen. That line is what has gotten me some angry emails whenever I've played it out at shows, which I've only done maybe 10 times.
Doug Burke:
Well, it's got everything that people can get angry about. That's for sure. And so, I like it for that reason. That this is what artists are supposed to do, is actually provoke thinking and provoke conversation, and provoke that emotional response. And if you have to be political or if you have to bring up religion, or you have to talk about sex, that's the history of music, frankly. I like that you have a very sparse guitar. And is that a cello on the song?
Stephanie Lambring:
It's Mellotron, which is like we use that thing on so many of the tracks. The Mellotron was our go-to. It sounds like a cello, for sure.
Doug Burke:
And so, if you ever write a song called, Joy of Jesus, of course it's going to evoke hymnals or songs sung in church, choir songs, I think. And the chorus especially has that hymnal choir-like feel to it.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. We definitely wanted that. And whenever my friend, Shannon Wright, came in to sing background vocals, that's what she was thinking. She had some very choir... her voice is not choir at all. But her harmony idea, she was going there. And so, we've just built on that. Definitely, we wanted to evoke that vibe, if you will.
Doug Burke:
The whole album has wonderful harmonies. Talk to me about that. I believe in this song, they come in the break where you have a lot of ooh, ooh, oohs, with echoey flavor.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. Well, harmonies are such a big part of this record. I love singing harmonies. I did most of them on the album. And it's fun for me to tastefully... my producer and I would just see where they would fit in. And we would put too many on there and then take away. And then, just use whatever seemed to make sense at the end. But to me, harmonies are just such... it's another instrument. It adds another dimension. It's one of those things that a little bit too much can really take you out of the moment. So, it's a skill to know what to leave alone and what to build on.
Doug Burke:
So, did those just come to you instinctively? Do you write them? You have this ooh, ooh, oohs during the break?
Stephanie Lambring:
I think you ooh when you know the song needs something. But you don't think it needs a wordy bridge. It feels like an instinctive thing.
Doug Burke:
But then, the second verse is very much about gay rights. And you made a video that highlights that about the song. So, tell me, where did that come from?
Stephanie Lambring:
This video was a really cool full-circle moment for me. Whenever I was looking for someone to direct it, my friend, Elise, who I wrote the first verse about, she directed me to her husband, who is a wonderful video director. And he actually used to be a worship leader that got disillusioned by the church. I met with him. And the concept for the video was mostly him. I mean, I told him a couple things that I had in my mind. But he came up with that. And I think it was during our second coffee meeting where he asked me if I knew of a couple that would maybe want to get married for this wedding scene. And immediately, I thought of my friend Blake, who had experience. He's been married to a woman. He's experienced conversion therapy. And then, he had to come out about a year prior to this meeting that I was having with the director. I said, "Oh, Blake and his boyfriend would be perfect. Also, they're both really good looking. So, that doesn't hurt." And I was like, "Well, but I haven't talked to him in a long time. But I will ask him. It might be weird, but okay. I'll ask him." Well, then, probably like 15 minutes later, this woman barges into the coffee shop where we're meeting. And she's like, "Who has this silver Nissan? I can't get in my car. Can you move? The parking spaces are super tight." So, this guy stands up. And it's my friend Blake that we were talking about. I look at Jason, the director, and I was like, "Holy cow. That's the guy." That felt like the universe being like, "This is a good thing. You should see this video through Jason. And you definitely need to ask your friend, Blake." And so, eventually, I couldn't ask him that day. I think I was a little spooked by the coincidence or whatever it was that he and his boyfriend agreed to be in it. And it was just such a cool experience. And I think healing for everybody.
Doug Burke:
Yeah. No. It's a message of tolerance, I think, which is one that we need in our society right now.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yes.
Doug Burke:
Joy of Jesus. Thank you, Stephanie, for bringing that to us. Let's talk about Pretty. This is a body shaming song. Is that accurate?
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. Body image issues song. Probably, the effects of body shaming song.
Doug Burke:
Yeah. This gets to my point. The song is not about issues. It's about the origin of the issues, and the origin of the issue of not feeling pretty.
Stephanie Lambring:
I think part of the reason I wrote this song was I think body positivity is great. And people are saying, "You're beautiful how you are." But if I'm being honest, that doesn't do it for me. To me, it was more healing to go to the root, which I guess touches on what you've said about the record. To me, I know that I needed to go where it originated as opposed to something that you can tell yourself. That just seems like a Band-Aid. And I think it can be deeper than a Band-Aid. But for me, personally, going to the source tends to yield more healing. I remember about, oh, probably five years ago, I was reading this old journal that I had from whenever I was 10, 11. And so, many of the journal entries, they would end with, "Will I ever be pretty?" in various ways of asking that question. And it was really interesting to me that, at that age, that was my focus.
Stephanie Lambring:
And then, that how that stayed with me in various ways as I got older. Yeah. It was something that... I think it was just necessary for me to write for a little girl Stephanie. And that ended up being, for me now, 34-year-old Stephanie.
Doug Burke:
It's interesting because the first verse is about bullying and being bullied in elementary school. We had Steve Seskin on the show who wrote, Don't Bully Me, which Mark Wills recorded. And I think it was nominated for Song of the Year, the year it was released. And that led to Peter Yarrow starting the Operation Respect. Which has, now, Steve has played that song in I think over 30,000 elementary schools around the world. And it's led to a whole anti-bullying educational movement. Can you talk about what it felt like, I guess? Is this an autobiographical song?
Stephanie Lambring:
Yes. Every word is autobiographical in this song.
Doug Burke:
And so, you had issues with food? I don't know if it's fair to say. You don't really mention the words bulimia or anorexia, or anything in there. But you certainly say, "I stuck fingers down my throat," which is probably not a natural act?
Stephanie Lambring:
No. Definitely, here's the thing. I lost about 30 pounds between my sophomore and junior year of high school. After Nashville artists had told me, "You look like a million bucks. If you got to this way, you would look like 20 million." And I was trying to be a country star at the time. So, I lost the weight. And it wasn't like I ever limited myself to 500 calories or something. But I was very strict. I think after I lost the weight, I tried to eat 1,000 calories or less. So, I mean, that is still pretty limiting. And I tried bulimia, but I wasn't very good at that. So, I just-
Doug Burke:
That's good for us that you weren't good at that.
Stephanie Lambring:
But I did stick fingers. I did stick fingers on my throat. It just didn't work for me. So, I preferred to not eat. That was my preferred way of dealing with it. But the thing is, I never got to an unhealthy weight. I was at an ideal weight for someone who's 5'4". That's the scary thing. But I lost my.... I don't know if this is weird to talk about. But I lost my period for six months because I wasn't eating enough. That outwardly I looked... everyone was telling me I looked great. Everyone was telling me, "Wow, how did you do it?" And I got all this praise. And meanwhile, I'm hungry and miserable at the same time, high off the drug of people telling you how good you look.
Doug Burke:
Wow. Wow. The song finishes with, "I step up and let some number make it a good or bad day. I'll be damned if I'll ever be pretty." And I thought this was either about counting calories or weighing yourself, and looking at that number, and how so many people who are obsessed about this issue, those numbers are the things. Is that where that's coming from?
Stephanie Lambring:
Definitely. For me, it's the scale. And that's still something I deal with. I can still obsessively weigh myself. I don't know if it's... I don't count calories anymore. I don't purge. I don't do any of that. But yeah, that's still something that even though I'm at a much healthier place, I'm still not at the ultimate healthy place. I'm hardwired almost to feel like skinnier is better.
Doug Burke:
That made me sad to hear the final song, "I'll be damned if I'll ever be pretty." Should that matter?
Stephanie Lambring:
Did it matter? No. Does it matter? Yes.
Doug Burke:
And stop it from mattering, right?
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. That's the thing. It's like, you know in your head what really matters. And you can say it for days. But that's not the core. It's just always going to be there on some level. And I think it's okay to acknowledge that. You know what I mean? Because if you're black and white thinking about physical looks, they don't matter at all. They have nothing to do. Reality is, they do. And so, I think you have to make peace with the... it's not 100% one way or the other. And you have to have grace for yourself for not being 100%, "This doesn't matter. I just don't think that that's realistic." That's just my opinion. But I don't think that that's realistic.
Doug Burke:
Well, I think even pretty people can do ugly things.
Stephanie Lambring:
Oh, my God. Yes. That's totally different. In my mind, that's a totally different area. Holy cow, yes. Pretty people can sometimes do the worst things because they didn't have to develop a personality to... I mean, not always. But you know what I'm saying. That is not the end all be all. And that's not what I'm trying to say in that last line either.
Doug Burke:
What are you trying to say with the song, Pretty?
Stephanie Lambring:
I think I'm just trying to say like, "I'm with you. I've been there too." That's all. "Let's cry about all the things in our lives that have made us wired this way. And I get it." That's what I'm trying to say.
Doug Burke:
Let's talk about the last song on your album, Autonomy. It's called, Birdsong Hollow. This is a really, really sad, sad song.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. This song was so sad. I didn't feel like I could put anything after it on the record. One of my favorite viewpoints in the Nashville area is from the Natchez Trace Bridge. It's about probably 20, 25 minutes southwest of Nashville. But it's this beautiful bridge that looks out over this gorgeous valley. And you go out there and people are taking pictures for Instagram and legitimate photo shoots happening. There's usually a drone. It's that stunning scenery. But every time I go to the bridge, there's this sign that haunts me. And it says, "There's still hope. Call anytime." And then, there's the National Suicide Prevention hotline number underneath it. And I don't know. It always spoke to me. But then, at a certain point, I thought, "It just called to me to write a song about it." Every time, it just jarred me. And it made me think of this alternate story that this place, this Instagram, happy place, the alternate story. The dark side of that beautiful place. And then, I looked it up, and it's considered part of the National Park Service. It has some of the highest numbers of suicide victims from that bridge. And I felt called to write about it.
Doug Burke:
Is it called Birdsong Hollow?
Stephanie Lambring:
Yes. The valley itself is called Birdsong Hollow.
Doug Burke:
It's such an ironic title. You can picture this beautiful place with birds singing. And this is a place where people decide they can't take it anymore.
Stephanie Lambring:
I thought about that too. My wheel is spinning for the song just like the name of the place and how vastly different that was from being in that dark, dark place. And then, it also made me think about the fallen souls finally singing after they found some peace. It made me think of that. That's probably a dark way to look at it. But that's definitely one place that my mind went.
Doug Burke:
That's in the break. Was that where you brought the Mellotron in? There's these twinkling keys or this chorus in this church choir again, which is transformative in the song because it just takes you to another place musically.
Stephanie Lambring:
That was definitely the idea. The choir voices are the Mellotron. And I thought they were perfect for taking it where we wanted it to go, that ethereal ghostly choir.
Doug Burke:
Yeah. This line just kills me. "Sometimes you can hear them sing a chorus of the silent screams."
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. For many people, it's like a silent illness. In writing this song, I wanted to capture it. I wanted to do justice to suicide victims and their families. And I watched this documentary called, The Bridge, which a crew set up cameras on the Golden Gate Bridge for a year. I think the only way they are approved to do it was to tell them they were watching birds. In reality, they were capturing people's last moments of life. And then, they found some people didn't do it. They caught some people talking. Some of those that were in a dark place talking them off the ledge, literally. And they went and talked to those people's families. They talked to people that had survived the jump. They talked to the suicide victims' families. It was a really, really interesting insight into that headspace.
Doug Burke:
What is a headspace in the song starts in the first verse with the parents or the father recognizing that his child has this ideation of doing this. And I think it's very rare that someone's suicide does not have some signals of some mental unwellness that the world around them can see. And so, it's almost like there's this feeling at the end that it was inevitable, which makes it even more sad. It's such a sad song.
Stephanie Lambring:
In watching that documentary, it seems like a common thing that many of the suicide victims had talked and talked about it, which I found just terribly sad. And then, some of their family members almost had a defeated feeling about it. Like what you said it like that, it was inevitable. I actually drew a lot of inspiration for this first verse. Especially, I drew from one father, who was particularly insightful about his son's condition. He had taken out the recycling that morning. And then, he noticed that wasn't taken back in. So, when the dad got home, he knew like something was up, or he knew what had happened. And then, he also said, "For some, the body's a temple. But for some, it's a prison." And that put a knife in my heart. What he had to say was so powerful. I actually found him on Facebook. And I sent him the song a couple of weeks ago. I figured out the father's name. And I just wanted him to know that I had written a song that was partially inspired by his son's story. And I asked him if he wanted to hear it.
Doug Burke:
And what did he say?
Stephanie Lambring:
He said he would love to hear it. So, I sent it to him. And he told me, "It was a beautiful, poignant story about someone's last day." And thanked me for sharing it with him. So, I felt like I needed to do it for some reason before it was released into the world. It just felt the right thing to do. He seems to have a lot of insight into. He has more understanding than maybe a lot of parents might about that situation.
Doug Burke:
But do you have any words of hope for either people who are thinking about this or people who are surviving the aftermath of this?
Stephanie Lambring:
If ending your life is something that's weighing on you, I just implore you to talk about it. Talk about it with people you love. Call the hotline. I just think that we need to share our burdens more than we do. And I don't know. I don't have the answers. But I just think if you can muster up the strength to talk about it with somebody, to do that.
Doug Burke:
Have you ever felt this way?
Stephanie Lambring:
No.
Doug Burke:
Well, that's good.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. I know. I know. I've had moments where like, "If my life were just over, I wouldn't have this anxiety right now." Just as a very anxious person, I have those moments from time to time. But I think the differences with people that it really weighs on, they think about it, how they're going to do it. And I've never had that. I've had moments of wanting to escape acute pain but not to that extent. No.
Doug Burke:
Birdsong Hollow. It's a very challenging song but I think one people should listen to. Stephanie, I listened to the whole album, Autonomy. And I have to say the song that I thought has the most pop radio-friendly appeal, or perhaps internet appeal, was song called, Fine. Tell me about this.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. That song definitely has a different tone than the rest of them. I had the first verse written a couple of years ago. I'd been at my grandma's funeral. And one of my relatives said, "Stephie, now we just have to get you married." I mean, at her funeral launch. I was bothered by that. I'd always felt this pressure to get married and have kids, and didn't really have a desire for either. And back at that time, I wouldn't even really say that out loud. But I think writing that song helped me process how I was really feeling. And the first verse is a conversation with myself really leaning into the questions that society asks of you. The societal pressures in like, "How do I feel about that?" And if I don't follow along with that, then, is my life less valuable? That's how that started. I always consider myself as a free spirit with an anxious mind. My soul is very gray and not gray in adult way, but just open and no pressure. And you do what you want. But my mind craves the black and white. And I think that's a battle that I'll always fight on some level. So, this song was basically my free spirit talking to my anxious mind. And thinking about writing the chorus, I was just thinking, "What would I like to hear from someone?" Rather than, "Is it your goal to get married? You and your boyfriend have been together for a while. If this is a goal of yours, then clock is ticking." Instead of hearing that, what did I really need to hear? And so, that's where the essence of this song comes from.
Doug Burke:
Whatever you're doing, you're doing just fine.
Stephanie Lambring:
Exactly. As I said, I had the first verse written a while back and then hadn't really touched it. But then, whenever I was writing the Birdsong Hollow a little over a year ago, I needed a break from that song. That one was such a doozy to write. I would go back and forth writing those two songs.
Doug Burke:
Oh, interesting.
Stephanie Lambring:
Yeah. Arguably, most hopeful, happiest song on the record. And then, probably the saddest. So, I was writing both of them at the same time.
Doug Burke:
So, it was like this oxymoron conflicting thing of your own brain goes from being a carefree artist to an anxiety-ridden person at the same time, all the time.
Stephanie Lambring:
That's me in a nutshell right there.
Doug Burke:
Oh, is that right? Okay. I'm glad we got to know you.
Stephanie Lambring:
I'm more secure as a person now than ever before. But I think that that is definitely always going to be there on some level. As I Google another health ailment that's bothering me today, it just is what it is. You have to laugh about it.
Doug Burke:
Do you feel there are pressures on you to get married and have children beyond your own familial pressures?
Stephanie Lambring:
Honestly, I feel less familial pressure now I guess as I'm embracing music more. So, it's probably mostly from society rather than family. I think that there's this unspoken and spoken expectation that society has. Your life will be more fulfilling when you have kids or when you find a partner to spend the rest of your life with. Relationship is so important. And I could be with someone the rest of my life. But at the same time, I don't have the desire to be with one person forever. Maybe that's complex. I don't know. But I just don't see things as having to be locked in stone. And me feeling like that and feeling alone in that. Because just seeing friends getting married, and whenever you grow up, you're taught that there's the one. And when you find the one, our culture feeds us this fairy tale story. I mean, for me, it was in my late 20s, I started unraveling. Or I started picking it apart and seeing it for having a more realistic point of view. But yeah, I think society puts that pressure on us to live a certain way. And feeling alone and my less conventional desires have created a lot of anxiety for me. I want to be different. I like that. I think I'm an enneagram for individualist. But then, it's like, "Oh, if I'm too different, then what's wrong with me?" People are going to be asking, what's wrong with me? Is there something wrong with me? It's this interesting dance.
Doug Burke:
I think whatever you're doing, you're doing just fine, Stephanie.
Stephanie Lambring:
Thank you.
Doug Burke:
Stephanie, I usually ask songwriters if there's a song that they've written, if they could pick any voice or band to play that song, what would you pick?
Stephanie Lambring:
If I could pick any artist to sing one of my songs? Oh, goodness. Okay. This might sound super weird, but I want Jason Isbell to sing my song, Somebody Else's Dress. That's what came into my mind.
Doug Burke:
Fantastic. Jason, if you're out there, please record this for us for all the Back Story Song listeners. And this is a great idea. Well, I have to thank you, Stephanie, for Joining us at Back Story Song. And I have to thank DJ Wyatt Schmidt. He's out there, and my Social Media Director, MC Owens. I have to thank some of my listeners, Andrea Valis for giving me a like. I appreciate all the help we can get in sharing our music. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @backstorysong. Stephanie, is there anything you'd like to wrap this up with?
Stephanie Lambring:
Well, I just want to thank you for having this really thoughtful conversation with me. It's been cool to dive deeper. And you've made me think about some different things about the songs that I wrote. And I think that that was a really cool experience for me. So, thank you for having me.
