Alicia Stockman Interview

Doug Burke:

Welcome to Back Story Song. I'm your host Doug Burke and today we're here with Alicia Stockman. Alicia Stockman grew up in the rural foothills of the Wasatch Mountains in Midway, Utah. She started playing clarinet in her junior high orchestra but wanted to play, as she said, "something a little bit cooler," and took up guitar. She obsessed over the online guitar archive tablature database and taught herself the lexicon of music. She began writing her own songs and her folksy blend of country and soul drives her lyrical narratives. She's influenced by strong female songwriters like Patty Griffin, the Indigo Girls and Susan Tedeschi. She combines her rhythm guitar with created tasteful phrasing and sweet soulful vocals. The critics have started to notice as she has recently received a number of awards at songwriting festivals.

We're here with Alicia Stockman and the first one we want to talk about is The Porter House. Yeah. We can talk about that. This was your first single.

Alicia Stockman:

My first single came out last November, so coming up on the anniversary of that. Now it's part of my six song EP that I have out. Fantastic. Tell us about the origination of this song. I went to Ireland, either last year or the year before, it's hard to remember these days. I was there for three weeks. My boyfriend and I rented a camper van and drove around the country. It was this big long adventure. A lot of people ask me if it was a musical tour, but it really wasn't. It was more just like a big hurrah. When's the next time we're going to be able to go out of town for three weeks and not have to worry about anything. So it was really just more a time to have fun, go seek out good times and music. It was more of an adventure than it was a tour. I was, in my mind, locking away potential, "Oh, when I come back and go on tour in Ireland, I'm gonna go to these places." We ended up in this town, Westport, in County Mayo. It's on the farthest western coast of Ireland. We were seeking out this famous bar called Matt Molloy's Pub. Matt Molloy is a famous member of The Chieftains, which is a famous Irish tribe band, and they've been around for a really long time. Everybody in Ireland knows who they are and most Irish tribe fans know who they are. We went there expecting great music and you never know who's gonna drop in. Some really big time artists could stop in just to hang out. We went in and it ended up being really crowded. The music was great. There was some really awesome musicians there that night but it was really crowded, in a small room. There were all these stuffy, old ladies who were holding down their spots and so there was nowhere to sit. We were standing in the doorway trying to peek our heads in and watch this music. We ended up going next door because it was just a little too crowded and we wanted to sit down and have a beer. The bar next door happens to be The Porter House. We went in and it wasn't as crowded. I was a little bit more cozy. There was some really good music there. So we're like, "Oh, great! This isn't Matt Molloy's famous pub, but this is also really great." We ended up hanging out there and the staff there was really nice. They had some awesome music. The bartender played music as well so he was waiting for his moment. As soon as that moment arose, he got up and played some Johnny Cash songs.  I was like, "I came all the way to Ireland to hear Irish people play Johnny Cash of all things." I think that he might be the most famous musician in Ireland. Johnny Cash might be the favorite. The bartender played some songs and then they let me play a couple songs later that night.

Doug Burke:

Do you remember what you played?

Alicia Stockman:

I don't remember. I was playing a lot of cover songs then. I think I was just worried. I played a couple songs of my own, but I think I played a couple covers too. I was all self conscious that I didn't know any Irish traditional songs, and they're like, "No, no, no. We hear those all the time. Play American music, play whatever you want to play." So I played some American classic rap covers, or some folk songs and stuff and people loved it. It was really fun. I played a couple songs, and then we ended up just making friends with the bar staff and the people who were running the music that night. We ended up coming back the next night because they were having an open trad session so there's a little bit more of coming and going and playing songs and whatnot. I actually didn't write anything while I was in Ireland. I brought blank notebooks with this intention of spending a lot of time journaling and coming up with lyrics. I borrowed a guitar from somebody that we trekked around the country with. I didn't write anything. So when I got home, I was like, "Okay, now I can decompress. I can spend some time on this." I tried to write down as many experiences as far as sensory experiences like sight, smells, sounds, textures and everything. I thought I was gonna write like 15 songs about Ireland but I wrote one. I'll take the one that I got though. I wrote The Porter House and I think that that experience stuck with me, because it went from being a bar to being something that really represented more about music and community for me. Showing up and getting to know people and then saying, "Oh, this is a great spot to have a beer." I think knowing the bar staff and the people running the music. There's more to it than just a nice pint of Guinness. The way that people listen to music in Ireland and the way that they appreciate music in these pubs was just so powerful to me. People listen and I think that's something here I often miss. I've played in bars and restaurants a lot. I've been background music, what I like to call "audible wallpaper"." I played these three hour gigs where I'm playing cover songs and occasionally someone will come up and be like, "Oh, do you know Landslide by Fleetwood Mac?" Instead of saying, "Oh, would you like to hear something I wrote or would you like to know who I am as an artist." Instead they want to hear a song that they know already. It was really cool to watch people really engage with music in this way that's just really important to them. Traditional Irish songs I think are so powerful because it is folk music. It's the way that people carry on stories and history and knowledge passed down through generations. Everybody knows these songs in Ireland. It's like our nursery rhymes, but for every generation, and they've been passed down for generations, everybody knows them. They all connect through these different songs. For me, that was really powerful, just way that they remembered music and used it in their daily lives. It came and brought people together as community. The second verse, we kind of start out light, "Head on down to The Porter House", have a pint, you know, hang out. It's like my TripAdvisor review. It's a good place to go. Then we kind of go into, "Oh, yeah, Pat's there." Pat was the bartender there at night who sang Johnny Cash. And I was like, "You're gonna have a good time," but then we go into The Porter House. We bring around the next chorus and it's building on that idea of community. The second verse, or however you want to look at, is really about what these songs represent. They're bringing about that sense of community and memory. There's a lot of sadness in songs, a lot of joy in songs, but a song is a song, it does what it will. A song has a lot of purposes and no matter where you are whether you're in Nashville, our American home of so much music and songwriting, compared to these other Irish traditional songs. It doesn't really matter, they're going to move you one way or another. So for me, it was really just about that journey of starting out with a great place to hang out to this means so much more to me and a sense of community, expressions, memory and all the different functions of a song. That's the long winded version of what that song means. So a lot of your songs are about a time and a place and a memory of those moments. There's a moment here, but it's more than a moment. It's an evening. Yeah.

Doug Burke:

It's a very specific evening, right. It's a Monday evening, is it?

Alicia Stockman:

Well, yeah.

Doug Burke:

Which is not usually the best night in a bar.

Alicia Stockman:

Also, it fit better in the song than Wednesday or Saturday lyrically. Someone explained it to me once and I kind of latched on to it. Ben Sollee, he's a cellist. He plays in a band called Ben Sollee and Kentucky Native. He said when he writes songs, he takes this microscopic view of something and then pulls out. By the end of the song, you'd have this big deal. For me, it's like that, but with a moment in time. So, "Oh, well, here's this moment that's imbued with sensory experiences, like sight, smell, taste, texture." So it can build up the scene where you're there, and then you pull out away from it and you're like, "Woah, this isn't just the smell of Guinness on draft or whatever. This moment is more than just having a beer with your friends. This moment is why we come here." It's an explanation. We don't just come to have a beer. There's so much more that we come to experience. We go to bars to experience connection. The way that these bars, these pubs, the way that people connect. Pubs are a place of community where you go to see your friends, talk about business, unload after a long day at work, or to just see regulars and everybody knows each other, that kind of thing. We went from the sights, sounds, smells and the people of this bar to this bigger picture. Zoom out, and then you're like, "Whoa, there's so much more to it than that." So that's where I take these moments into the 10,000 foot view. Talk to me a little bit about the creation of the song. There's a lot of different instruments. In particular, I was thinking about Billy Joel's Piano Man, and, and how this is sort of an acoustic singer-songwriter's version of that. Sitting in a pub and watching characters evolve to a certain extent. There's probablu more characters in Piano Man than this, but talk to me about the creation of the sound. Yeah. Well, there's some backstory to the creation of this EP and these singles, which ties in a lot to it. I played with a band for a really long time. I played in bars and restaurants with this band, and we played a lot of cover songs. I was working with the resources I had and I was really lucky to have some really talented musicians that I'd been working with for a long time. They were on board with creating these things and I am eternally grateful for their help in this process because it was intense and a really steep learning curve. They really helped me out to bring the songs to life in a different way. It was a very DIY project. If you look at the CD cover, it's needlepoint because it was in the spirit of DIY. We made everything ourselves. I did all the digital distribution. My drummer Nick did all of the end sound like recording engineering. We sent it to a friend of ours and asked him to do the mixing. It was just a hodgepodge. We'd get together on a Tuesday afternoon for a couple hours. We were recording in a practice space in Salt Lake where other bands also rehearsed. We kind of like had to time it right when these other heavy metal bands weren't playing so we could record vocals and stuff. It was an experience. We had this great piano player, his name's Pete, and he brought a really nice flavor to it. I hadn't really played with a piano player a lot. He wasn't in the band originally. He came on the project just to help record this EP. It was a really nice taste because the band used to be more rock and blues and soul. We had loud electric guitars and we were kind of a party band so it was really fun to switch it up and have this beautiful piano. I feel like the song really calls for it. If I had my dream, for sure there'd be a fiddle in there or a mandolin or something - more of those traditional instruments for folk. Maybe someday it'll get a re-release and a facelift with those sounds because I think it'd be super fun. I do think the piano really brought a nice melodic feel to it whereas we had mostly rhythmic instruments between bass drums and acoustic guitar. It was really a nice touch to have that. Meg Frampton sang harmony vocals on it and I think that that helped bring in a nice feeling. The other thing too, is at the end of the song, there's this like, "Lady di, di, di, di di" part, and it's just kind of made up lyrics. The other thing that happened at these bars was everybody sang along. People would be playing a song and of course, everybody knows every Irish traditional song there, and so they would just sing along. Everyone there is a great musician, and it just blew my mind. I'm like, "this country is ridiculous. Everyone is talented." And they were just like, "Oh, yeah, no big deal. It's fine.," So everyone would be singing along so to me, that part was like, you have a beer in hand, your shoulders around your friend and you're just kind of singing along. I feel like there's a minor chord in there that kind of brings it a little darker, but I think that's important too. It's not always friends in low places. It's not always just a drinking song. Drinking songs can have other purposes, too. And so for me, the harmony vocals in that section, to me, represent that community, sing-along feel. And there's a dark side to a lot of Celtic traditions as well. Yeah. In the song there's a line that says, "In a country that sings to remember it's grief." Ireland has been through some shit. It's like 800 years of British occupation so they have a lot of songs to remember those moments and it's kind of a never forget thing. There's also songs about lost love. There's songs about going to war. There's songs about immigrating and all these wonderful stories that are held in these songs. Those moments are important to remember too, even if they're not cheerful. I like the "la dee da" because if I don't know the lyrics, I can sing with you on that part. When you do that live, does the audience sing along to that ever? Sometimes.

Doug Burke:

Do you get that magic chemistry going?

Alicia Stockman:

Yeah, there's a couple of places where I've been able to play it. I've been pursuing fewer bars and restaurants and more singer-songwriter listening room situations. I was recently in Austin, Texas at a conference called SWRFA, Southwestern Regional Folk Alliance, and I was in the unofficial alternate showcase. We have this conference where we bring artists and venues and bookers and promoters together and you play your music for the people and we build a network. I got to play for everybody and as I'm playing the song, I'm like, "If there's anyone more qualified to help me out with this part of the song, I just can't imagine it. I'm in a room full of folk singers. Please join me on this." Everyone stepped in and sang it with me with a four part harmony. That was a dream. It was really cool. It was really fun to have people join in on that.

Doug Burke:

Is that recorded?

Alicia Stockman:

No, it's not, unfortunately. That'd be sweet. I have a song that's not recorded, but I guess it's a good songwriter story in that it's one of those songs that's never done. Do you want to do that?

Doug Burke:

We can, sure. Would you play it for me?

Alicia Stockman:

Yeah.

Doug Burke:

At least in its current state, I'll get the most current version.

Alicia Stockman:

Yeah, it might get a another chorus makeover, but that's fine.

(From the Distance plays)

I always like the finishes. That's called From the Distance? Yes!

Doug Burke:

It's beautiful. Tell me about the story and the inspiration behind this song.

Alicia Stockman:

This song feels like my white whale. I've been working on the song since two years ago in November and I still don't feel like it's done.

Doug Burke:

So you're like the Captain Ahab and this is the Moby Dick.

Alicia Stockman:

Yeah. It's so close. It has been through probably seven versions of chorus, some verse changes here and there, and some bridge options. There's so much to it that I love and then there's parts of it that just aren't quite there. This, to me, is the closest it's been which is nice.

Doug Burke:

How do you decide when a song is done?

Alicia Stockman:

I don't know.

Doug Burke:

I've asked this similarly and I think it is actually a very interesting question.

Alicia Stockman:

It's so hard.

Doug Burke:

Clapton redid Layla so a song could never be done if you want to redo it.

Alicia Stockman:

Yeah. I think songs evolve and it's funny. As I evolve as a performer, they're gonna change. As a songwriter, I learn things and I want to go back and be like, "Oh, that technique that I used then isn't the right technique for that emotion so I want to go back and fix it, or change it." Sometimes you just have to move on to the next song and just use those skills in the next one instead of the last one.

Doug Burke:

And put that one in the distance.

Alicia Stockman:

Yeah. Leave it there, it's gonna be fine.

Doug Burke:

This song is getting close?

Alicia Stockman:

I feel it's close. For me, the verses are really strong. This song I wrote in a phase. For a while, I would start writing at the beginning of a song. It can work, but it depends what my plan for the song is. If I know what the song is going to be about, I can start at the beginning because when I get to the chorus, I already know what the guts of the song are going to be, if the song has the chorus. Not all songs have choruses. For this song I started at the beginning because I had this idea of this relationship that I was sitting there writing about. When I got to the chorus, I don't know that I had the guts quite yet. It took me a while to figure out what the relationship I was thinking about represented, like what is the thesis statement of this relationship that I'm trying to convey in the chorus? That's why it's been through so many different iterations because I was trying to figure out the most important line. Is the most important in the first line or the last line? The song was called Why You Walked Away for a long time and it used to be in basically reverse order. It would end up with, "Why you walked away," and now it starts with that, "Why did you walk away? What is it you didn't say?" For me this relationship was based on a relationship with a friend of mine. We kind of fell away from each other and for me, there was never closure. So that's my thing, are we no longer friends? Are we still friends? I think that's something that's true in a lot of relationships, whether they're romantic or not. I feel like there's sometimes a parental relationship that can be that way. With some people who have weird relationships withtheir parents, I think that's a really relatable feeling of, "What happened? Tell me. Can we talk about it?" Never having talked about it and you're just left in the dark and you're like, "What's going on?" That's what the song is about. With the chorus, for some reason I just could never have been able to get it to land right. Nothing sums it up concisely the way I want it to so I feel like if I ever decide to tackle that again, maybe a shorter chorus. Just trim it down because this is a pretty wordy song, but I really like the verses. We talked about in The Porter House, those moments where you have those little moments and then you zoom out. So you have those little moments where you just find yourself thinking, "What went wrong?" and you zoom out and you're like, "Oh, my gosh. Is it me? Is it you? Is it us? Is it that time that we had that big fight?" The verses to me are really expressive in that way and I want the chorus one up in the same way. So I don't know like it might be there. It might not be there, but the song I got to play it. At the wild. There's a music festival in Dallas, Texas, or Richardson, Texas, north of Dallas, the wildflower performing, I guess, wildflower arts and music. Oh, And they have a songwriter contest, the Alan Johnson performing songwriter contest, and they played it there. And it got second place. So it can't be that bad. So must be doing okay. makes you happy. Yeah, be that bad. It can't be that bad. So it's not that far off. But yeah, it's just, it's just one of those songs that it's just on a journey. And there's so much about about that I love and I don't want to give up on it. And maybe it's there. Maybe I just need to stay with it for a few more months. And I mean, it's I'm already invested two years in. So what's another six months? It's not recorded for that reason. And I couldn't tell if there was romance involved in the song. The desire for there to be romance that failed. Yeah, you know, and I wasn't sure if that was part of the song or not. That could be a thought in one person's head and not in the other. A lot. So yeah, like when I as a writer, I wasn't writing it. Romantic perspective. But I also left it open because it's such a common trope in romantic relationships. And I'm like, everyone has felt that way at some point, or most people have felt that way at some point or another. Like I said, with whoever it is, and I was thinking, I'm like, you could even put this in the context of like, an estranged sibling. Let like you, you know, like, that happens all the time. And so I've had a lot of people who hear the song, say, like, Oh, yeah, like, they come to me. And they say, oh, that feeling of lost love. And I'm like, and I think when people say that, that's the lens into their lives more than it is it's mine. And their interpretation of it is going to pull out their experience, which to me, is a huge compliment in that like it connected with that person in a way that brought up a memory or emotion or an experience that hit the nail on the head for me, which I'm like, okay, I did my job. That's all I have to do. Like it doesn't have to be me telling you how I feel about this person and our relationship and you need to understand how I feel about This person, it's my job as a songwriter is not for me to tell you how I feel, but to give to open a door for us to have a dialogue and experience something together. So I'm going to draw your memories through these images that I'm using. So for me, I don't care if people think about it as romantic. I'm like, great, like, that's your experience. And that's cool that you're connecting in a way that's bringing up something for you. I think a lot of songs are about closure. And this one's about how in life, there is sometimes no closure or moments in time, there's a lack of closure on things. And how that affects your brain. Yeah, and I yeah. And I think too, it's like, maybe, Oh, my gosh, I just had an epiphany. Maybe that's why I can't finish the closure. Yeah, like with this song. I mean, we've all been there and you get to this point. For me, to be clear, like this relationship, I write songs, you know, they're not 100% biographical, they start as a moment experience, and then I go from there. So there's parts of truth. And there's parts that are storytelling. What's the point at which you give up? And what's the point at which you do something about it? And what's the point where, like, you no longer can do anything about it, you know? And so it's like, with this relationship, it's like, are you able to just call the person out and say, like, Dude, what's the deal? Like, let's talk about this, or is that person long gone? And you're never gonna get to talk about it? And if that's the case, like do you get your opportunity to? Like you never get your questions answered. So do you just wander or do you learn to let it go? And so I think like the song is intentionally left open ended on that feeling of like, the song is about them wandering, you know, and you're left with that feeling of wondering so there is no closure, which is probably why the songs not done Or maybe doesn't feel done and maybe that's maybe how it's supposed to feel. I don't know.

Every morning is the same sweet. See from somehow somewhere in my head on the show it's kind of funny how harmoniously. The two of us measure

Alicia Stockman:

We're going to talk about we fit together. Yeah, this is a new single off of your Yeah, this was the most recent single on the EP came out like April or May something like that I should know they came out in the spring.

Doug Burke:

Tell me the story behind the song.

Alicia Stockman:

This sound was at a time in my songwriting I was writing I really like sad songs can be who doesn't love a good sad song. And I've been writing a lot of you know, minor chord songs kind of heavy stuff and a lot of stuff in six eight times. And so this is a very intentional like write something lighthearted, something kind of upbeat and have fun with it and just kind of switch it up and like I think that's something as a songwriter, I learned about myself that I will get caught up in myself in that the next time you write has to be the best song ever written. Like I put it up there with my favorite songs of all time. Like one of my favorite songs is ghost by the Indigo Girls. It's really beautiful and well crafted song and I'd put that as my like, okay, now I'm gonna write a song as good as that, now that they haven't been doing it for, like, decades and have so many so much like, so many berries and so much knowledge that like, not every song I'm gonna write is going to be ghost, I have to like flip gears to be like just write a song, any song, it'll be fine. It's better than not writing any songs at all. And so it was very intentional, like just write something fun and light hearted and I'd kind of been stuck for a while before I wrote the song. And I remember sitting on my front porch and just being like, apologizing to them use that I had not been giving her apps attention or freedom in my life. And I like literally said the words out loud. I'm like, I'm really sorry. I haven't been given you enough attention. And I promise to make a better effort that I will like, you know, let you drive the bus instead of me trying to like, be all picky about it and write these like epic sounds, which was then stalling me from writing anything. And so like the next day, the Like a lot of the guts of the song that came to the surface and I was able to write rather quickly. And then I had to work for like the last couple, like the last probably burst bridge situation. But I just remember like I had like a, it was a very good heart to heart that I had with my inner songwriter and my muse about like, how the songwriting process should go for me, you know, no wishy washy kind of emotional state. But I also think like when you're dealing with creativity, you have to open your mind to options. You can't just, it can't be all rigid all the time. Well, I really like about the song is you avoid cliche.

Doug Burke:

The things that fit together.

Alicia Stockman:

Holland notes is a little bit different. Huge call notes span over here. And it's not just jam and toast. It's homemade jam and toast. Talk about that. Tell us about how you thought about things that sit together the song what you're trying to say, Hmm, well, of course, there's the rhyme of hollow notes that I had to work around that I set myself up for. So that was challenging. And so I spent a lot time like just writing down things that went together that also rhymed with so I had like a whole bunch of different things, and a lot of stuff got nixed, that just didn't make it in the song that was just like either just weird or didn't make sense or like brought up other images that were not fun and light hearted that like took you out and also like had to like cross stuff off the list. And then I did pull some friends on you know, like, musical pairs that I could also put in like jet to your Benny and sunny to share to my sunny and June to Johnny and then I also sometimes I play it live, my boyfriend's a very big fish fan. He left the band fish. And so I'll sing it and I'll be the mic tear tray, which is the two It's so nerdy. It's like the nerdiest thing. Only fishman's Hollywood, but,

Doug Burke:

but there are a lot of them around.

Alicia Stockman:

Yeah, so like, there's every once in a while, if I play it live, or I'll sing it, if he's there especially I'll play like your mic to your tray, which is so nerdy. Like the whole point is have fun with it. So I had to keep them whatever my references were going to be that to be light hearted rhyme and they just kind of had to like, you know, be a given that they went together. But there was a there's a long list and so pick just a few that I thought went together well, and also with like the quirkiness of the other aspects of the song had to be kind of quirky and homemade jam.

Doug Burke:

And so was this specifically about your boyfriend? Or is this about a generalized, quirky person?

Alicia Stockman:

There's definitely like, there's definitely some very specific references to our relationship and I have alienated some people in our lives where it gets them. Do you think we're the luckiest ones? Or their story more than just chance? What are the odds, I'd find someone melts who hates Cheap Trick? cucumbers and holding hands. One of the three things that neither of us like to do yeah a lot of Cheap Trick fans are not we've had some chats but I'm like you know what I don't really like cheap trick and I'm sorry about it and everyone is entitled to their money love that line in the song but it was making me think What's so wrong about surrender. It's not a bad song. It's like, can't you like surrender? I think don't get yourself away. Did you ever sing that an open mic night or one of your one of your cover? I want you like I want it's just like this is just carried them so far. And I just don't want you to want me I just don't think that it's that great of a song and it's just taken them so far. I can understand hating that song. Yeah. So I think it's surrender. You know, don't give yourself away. It's different things. Dangerous song. I do have some emotions for people. Is that cheap trick but well, I'm sorry if you found this podcast through cheap tricks, sir. I yeah, give me a chance. It's just this one reference and holding hands, huh? Yeah, no, no, we're not big hand holders. So yeah. There's a lot of other things than holding holy hands. Yeah. See, there's other things like the next line is Who else would know how to woo me with bourbon and Battlestar on the couch so he left so much drink bourbon and watch Battlestar Galactica. Those are some other things you know, it's not everything is built on holding hands.

Doug Burke:

Do you have favorite bourbon?

Alicia Stockman:

I do right now. Knob Creek is very high on my list. #Knob Creek. There's beautiful piano and harmonies on the song. You want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, and I enjoyed the arrangement on the song. A lot of songs in my EP I wrote before or that before my band but like just separate from my man. Like there are songs I was writing playing at solo shows, my band was doing something different. And this song I was in the band, who actively writing and so I kind of wrote it with them in mind of like, Okay, I'm gonna write the song, and then I'm gonna let them help me dictate how this goes because they have all this talent, they hear things differently than I do, especially my drummer, Nick Price. He's excellent with rhythm. He's just really good all around. And so he has some cool creative ideas that I would just never think of. I'm very, like, I'm not creative when it comes to rhythmic patterns whatsoever. So I kind of let him take the lead on that. And so there's this, the way that the drums on the snare roll through and the way I had been, I adjusted my guitar playing to match up with how he was playing it because his was a little bit more swung. And that kind of made it back a little bit, which I liked. And then we all kind of adapted to that. And then yeah, there's a major seventh chord in there and so I think that that plays ball with like the piano kind of have those a lot of like, runs like you know, runs down the scale. And he like glaze over things. And I thought it was really nice how he did that. I can do that, my friend Pete. But Pete, he played on all the six songs in the, on the EP and he is out of, I guess he's from Florida, but he's been living in Salt Lake for a while. And so we met up with him to work on this project. Yeah, he just barely brought a nice flavor to it. The harmonies in it I think are really nice because they just kind of fill out the sound. And Meg Frampton sang those and she's got like this really beautiful like sweet voice and she just adapts really well. It's like really light and airy and so kind of served the song well in these like, different chords that we had overlaid. So like in the course we go from B minor to a b seventh the second time you come through, so it kind of changes the tone a little bit. And she adapted really nicely to that with some noise in the background and and layer that really well and I liked how it just kept like this just light hearted nature throughout the whole thing. So everybody brought in different to the table that kept that part in it. So just really fun to write the song from a perspective of like, Okay, my theme is light hearted and then everyone played their instrument or offered their skill set in the best way possible for light heartedness. And I can't leave out Nick Stephens who played bass on it. He's a rock star on bass. So he did a great job on that too. And yeah, brought really good ideas to the table and, you know, badass. Are you on the Pacers? Generally? Yeah, when I play a live, it's fun to throw in some hollow notes. Dan nicing rich girl over the outro which is fun. So yeah, I love the song. It's fun. It's a nice switch up in my set. Or sometimes I'm like, you know, I have some of these heavier songs or songs a lot of deep meaning and this is like you don't have to invest a lot in the song. I have a song idea suggestion on this one. Okay. I think this would be really cool if it was a male female duet. Ooh, that can be fun where you alternate aspects, either lines or even courses or verses. Oh, totally harmonize, like throughout at points we fit together. I feel like there's you know, there's no pronoun issues, you can totally work that in there and be great.

Doug Burke:

I don't know who the right male voices on that part, but I don't know if that's a good idea or bad idea. I have a lot of ideas. People say idea to the fish mania. What song would you like to talk about?

Alicia Stockman:

I would like to do the song grace. And I have about my niece. It's also not recorded. But I'm kind of in this place in my songwriting right now, where like, it was a lot of effort to get those six songs recorded. But like, I'd been writing songs here and there for a while. And so it took a while to compile those songs. And it took a while to record those songs. And while I was recording those songs, I was also writing new stuff. And so it's been Yeah, it's been about a year since the porter has came out and so all those songs were interesting. About a year ago, and then they came out in the EP this spring, but some of the songs are like five, six years old to me like, there are these songs like I have evolved as a songwriter. Lots of those songs were recorded, not saying they're not good, I love them. They're my song children and I love them. But there's also like this new material that I'm coming up with that I'm really excited about, and I'm very proud of as far as my songwriting has just I just feel like I'm in this new chapter of songwriting. That's just so much better. I would like to think that I'm getting better not worse at this so. So yeah, I have a song about my niece that I would like to play for you.

Doug Burke:

So that's your niece grace.

Alicia Stockman:

Yeah, her middle name is Grace.

Doug Burke:

My daughter's middle name is Grace.

Alicia Stockman:

My name is Layla grace. That's I've been that song that's taken. Place has already taken. So I wrote about grace. I like the way it opens with the dandelion. And that seems like a child thing to do. Just a song. Just about a child, or is it about grownups to no one's ever asked me that before. Um, I wrote this song about my niece. As a child. She's sick. She's gonna be seven soon, but like when she was born, I want to write a song about her but I was also my first niece, nephew, whatever. It was, like super important. And so I put this like weird onus on it like it has to be has to be good because I can just write a song for my knees. That's like just okay. And so took me six years to get around to it. And I just kind of like I never I never even tried to write it because I was like, I don't even know where to start. And then one day I sat down and it just like, I was like, can we write a song today? I've got like, some time have passed to myself. Let's do this. And it just like, hit me. And I was like, today's the day I'm gonna write Layla song. I'm gonna write it about her. The cool thing about her being six in writing it which was better than when she was born is that I know her so much better than the person now. Like it was easy because she's so much about her that makes her her and unique. That was just like, Oh, she's like a wild child flower. She loves nature. She loves butterflies. She loves to catch bugs and lizards. And that is so much material to work with. And so it's it really is it's truly about her as a child and as a person and like what makes her special, it really is a tribute to her. And in her uniqueness. And it's interesting that you asked me that because it's like, some of these things like probably are going to be evergreen with her, you know, like, these are the things that make her her and will probably make her for a long time, you know, as she grows and evolves, but I don't I never thought of it from the perspective. Like for me, it's just really it's truly just when I play I think about her and I think about those images and the lightning bolt line Where's your white hot lightning bolt makes me laugh every time because she is just like quick on the draw with these corrections. She's so smart. And she'll just correct you like when she was three. We were playing with these like she loves like animal figures, the ones that are realistic, not like pink and blue or whatever. They have to be realistic. And we were playing with these like whales and dolphin toys. And someone said like, oh, the sharks gonna get you and she just goes, that's an orca. Like specifically I'm like your three like cat like and that's like kind of like white hot lightning ballroom like she's beautiful big blue eyes cute little sprinkle of freckles on her cheeks. And then also like, just quick as a web like, it's not sure it's a whale. Yeah. And it's an orca specifically. So it's like, can't get anything by hair. And like, I love that about her that she's just, she's just gonna keep us on our toes. Always. There's this childlike wonder at nature, in dandelions and spider webs. Like, as a grown up, those are weeds and pests. Yeah, but you think about them differently. Then, when you're grown up. You're like, I need to get all those cobwebs off my front porch and she's like this cool thing. And there's that and so I really love that. So it To me, it does actually set this story about a child's worldview. Yeah. That's cool. I mean, I mean, that's awesome. I love that. It is definitely her worldview. It is, I guess it is a landslide for me to say that she's, she's every color in the sunset. She's a constant state of change. You know, I guess that's my worldview as it as it is experienced through her. So, you know, like, I mean, that's kind of true of all songs, right? Like, as much as it is about her. It's about my perception of her in through the world I experience. So, yeah, I mean, it is my adult experience through these magical things that she still looks at as magical and like maybe I could stand to do that to this song didn't get a lot of rewrites. per se. It's funny. It was written in the third person For a while, so it was she's every color in the sense that she's a constant state of change. She's delighting all those things. And I played it at, at this at this camp called song school, Rocky Mountain song school and everyone gets to play a song on the mainstage. Well, not the mainstage. But the stage that we have. And this was a song I played, and my friend Wyatt esplin played violin on it. And it was so beautiful. I actually when I wrote it, I was like, I'm gonna leave space for Wyatt to play violin on this Sunday. And I got my dream a dream came true. And it was lovely. I had a great time playing it. The sound was always magical. And it was really fun. And then I get offstage. And there's this guy there. His name's Pat Patterson, and he's an instructor at Berkeley. So he teaches at Berkeley, he teaches at the song school, and I've taken classes from him before and I love his approach to songwriting. And I definitely drink in the past and Kool Aid. I'm on board with his message about songwriting and some people can take his feedback as maybe not so much constructive criticism is just plain criticism. But I've worked with him before. And so I really appreciate anything as to say like he's not he's not super complimentary, he's more there to like help you be better songwriter than he is to tell you how great you are all the time. So I play the song and I get off the stage. And I'm singing, you know, she's every color on the sunset. She's a constant state of change is how I performed it. And he just comes over to me after I get offstage and be like, oh, great job. He comes over and he said, I want you to say that about me. And so I turned him I say, pat your every color in the sunset. And he's like, no, it's fine needs to be in direct a dress, and he's saying the song You know, it's powerful song. It's got great imagery, but say it to me. So say instead of saying she's every color and sunset, say your every color in the sunset, not not terrible, terribly, a lot to rewrite. Like, I just had to change some pronouns. And I like got it all figured out. But it was crazy. Like, for me writing about my knees. I was like, trying to tell the world how great she is. I'm like, I should just tell her how great She is. And so I switched everything to like meat to iron you. And it just like the song was like, Okay, now it's done. Like it's done, like no question about it like we're there. And so that was a really cool like, just, but it was really it was a huge compliment for Pat Patterson to get up out of his chair to come over and tell me that I needed to make a change. So have you played the revised version for Patton? Did he say it's done? Or maybe it's not. But I he was like that like to me is like a huge compliment because he doesn't do that. So that was like really cool that he fired up such sage advice, unsolicited, not to denigrate the song but the change from she to you makes it much more of a hallmark message. You know, it's like, you know, you don't buy a card at the store for someone and it says she's great.

Doug Burke:

buy a car this is your great Yes. You know, it turns it into a message right as opposed to a news reporting

Alicia Stockman:

right? And like there's there's something to it like there's a time and a place where third person is gonna make sense. And that's like when a pap hasn't like met like one of his big lessons he's like run it through every iteration run it through. She he they read it through I you run it through, you know, like, remove yourself even further and tell a story from you know, a narrator's perspective like that, and then to run it through these different perspectives. And this is a standard Pettersen trope, but it's just funny. Like, I really love this song. I'm really happy with it. But when I was playing, I'm like, I'm so excited about it, because I just love my niece, and she's so great. And she gave me this wonderful song to write that, like I was super close to it, and it took, you know, I didn't even know that it wasn't there yet, because I was like, Oh, I love this song so much and there was nothing wrong with it, per se. But we take it we get a little bit and it's just that much better. And it just takes you know Step back. And sometimes that's outside perspective to give you that view that like, Oh, this has just, I could go a little bit farther. And yeah, I get too close to things sometimes. And a friend of mine has mentioned it get too precious about it, you like hold these things really close to you. And you're very precious about them. And you don't want to let them go. Even if it's not serving them the best. So like lines and songs or words or lyrics or melodies, it's like you get too precious about them, and you're actually no longer doing them justice. You're just you're being selfish with those things. So it was like, I don't even think that I knew that I was being too precious about it at the time. And now I'm like, Oh, that makes perfect sense. And I'm not mad about it. I'm actually very excited about it. So I love that song. I love playing it.

Doug Burke:

It's fun. Well, Grace is obviously precious. It's Yes.